266. “I carry the household, the bills, and the stress”

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Ramit Sethi of I Will Teach You To Be Rich talks to Alexis, 29, and Edwens, 30, a married couple with a 10-month-old baby and two completely different ideas of what money should look like in a marriage. Edwens immigrated from the Dominican Republic less than two years ago, and personal finance is still new to him. Alexis has been trying to teach him, manage the bills, build the budget, and create a future for their family. And yet, their biggest fight keeps coming back to one question: Why won’t Edwens open a joint bank account?

But the account is only part of the story. What Ramit uncovers is a marriage where Alexis wants partnership, transparency, and a shared family system, while Edwens is still holding on to independence, privacy, and the idea that giving her $1,000 a month should be enough. Alexis feels like she has become the household manager, the bill payer, and eventually more like his mother than his wife. Edwens feels criticized and controlled, especially around credit cards and spending. Underneath all of it are cultural differences, childhood money patterns, and a couple with a baby who are still trying to turn two separate money lives into one shared future.

In this episode we uncover:

Why a joint bank account becomes the breaking point in their marriage
What Alexis means when she says Edwens still acts like a single man
Why Edwens sees separate money as independence, not betrayal
The $1,000 arrangement that leaves Alexis managing everything alone
How cultural differences shape their money rules
Why Edwens struggles to understand credit cards and debt
The moment Ramit almost ends the session
Why Alexis feels like she has become Edwens’s mother, not his wife
How childhood money patterns are showing up in their marriage
Why their cheap rent is a financial gift they are not fully using
The moment they finally start building a shared money system

Chapters:

(00:00:00) “He still operates like a single man”
(00:01:58) The joint bank account fight
(00:07:19) “I don’t want to be married without a joint account”
(00:12:19) She wants partnership. He hears control.
(00:18:05) The credit card argument
(00:25:50) Why does he listen to Ramit, but not his wife?
(00:30:56) Ramit almost ends the session
(00:35:31) Their real income changes the conversation
(00:45:20) The bills, the $1,000, and who actually manages the money
(00:55:04) Repeating their parents’ money fights
(01:02:25) Building a new money culture as a couple
(01:07:13) Alexis has been carrying the household alone
(01:15:20) “I feel like his mom, not his wife”
(01:21:52) Breaking the generational money pattern
(01:27:54) Why therapy needs to happen before it’s too late
(01:32:33) Rebuilding their Conscious Spending Plan
(01:43:16) From separate money to real partnership
(01:48:02) Follow-up

This episode is brought to you by:

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Transcript:

(00:00:00:00) Alexis: I don’t know where to start. Like, I really don’t know. I have no idea where your paycheck goes.

 

(00:00:04:25) Ramit: Where’s the money? I would be pissed. Not at her.

 

(00:00:08:24) Edwens: Myself.

 

(00:00:09:14) Ramit: How much. Credit card debt do you have.

 

(00:00:10:21) Alexis: Right now? Like $1,000.

 

(00:00:12:16) Edwens: Really?

 

(00:00:13:10) Alexis: Yeah. Don’t do that.

 

(00:00:14:09) Edwens: How long is gonna take you to pay that?

 

(00:00:16:07) Alexis: Not even a month. He sees the balance and flips out.

 

(00:00:18:28) Ramit: What’s the problem?

 

(00:00:19:19) Edwens: You know what? I don’t want to talk about it.

 

(00:00:21:28) Ramit: Let’s take a break. What did you decide?

 

(00:00:25:10) Alexis: We’re here, and we’re ready to play ball.

 

(00:00:27:00) Ramit: You’re so close to living a great life. But every time it comes into. Picture, you’re derailed. What do you think happens if the two of you keep. Seeing money. Differently for the rest of your lives?

 

(00:00:39:15) Alexis: Resentment. Possibly. Separation.

 

(00:00:42:09) Ramit: You’re married. You have a ten month old. It’s time to get locked in. I could see you guys easily going on 40. Years and fighting about money.

 

(00:00:50:25) Alexis: Dang. Don’t care so much.

 

(00:00:53:09) Ramit: I almost ended today’s session midway through, and I want you to understand why. What if you found yourself in a new country with a completely different set of rules, a totally different culture than the one you were raised with? Culture permeates every part of our lives. It tells us how we raise our children. What brand of laundry detergent we use and who’s in charge. Of the money. So what happens when those rules change? Today I’m speaking with Alexis and Edwens. They’re 29 and 30 years old. They’ve been married for two years, and they have a. Ten month old. Baby. In her application, Alexis wrote. My husband just immigrated from the Dominican Republic less than two years ago, and personal finance is completely new for him. I feel like I’m teaching him while trying to manage our household and it is overwhelming. We hate fighting over money, but the cultural differences feel like we are speaking two different languages. She also writes he still operates like a single man and I hate it. There is a lot to unpack here. Let’s start by looking at their Conscious Spending plan or KSP. And if you want my help with your KSP, you can join my money coaching program at Comma Money Coaching. Assets 12,000. Investments 44,000. Savings $5,500. That’s quite low, especially with a baby debt 26,000 for a total net worth of 35,400. Fixed costs are 71%, which is a little higher than. I’d like to see investments at 6%, savings at 12%, guilt free spending at 11%. I have a lot of questions. So let’s get started with Alexis and Edwens. So, Alexis, you applied to. Come and speak. To me? Sure did. What was going on at. The very. Moment that you wrote. That application?

 

(00:02:44:28) Alexis: Funny enough, I, I had the tab open for probably two weeks, and I think what made me hit send on the application was an argument that we had had about trying to open a joint bank account. Remember that. I’ve, I’ve pushed this on him since before we even got married. We’ve been married for now for about two years and I’ve asked him this since before we got married. I think as a couple we should be able to trust each other enough to share things. And money should be the primary thing. He never agreed with that. I definitely think that when I agreed to marry him and become one and create a family together, I also assume that finances would be at the crux of that being able to raise a family depends on us being able to pay for and support that family. So I thought, why not have a joint account? He disagreed on that.

 

(00:03:35:01) Ramit: So was the. First time he disagreed. Was it before you got married? Yes. Okay. And in the. Last case, right before you applied. Walk me through that conversation. In fact, can we just recreate it?

 

(00:03:46:01) Alexis: Why not? Yeah.

 

(00:03:47:15) Edwens: So you said.

 

(00:03:49:04) Alexis: I don’t want to be married if we’re not going to have a bank account.

 

(00:03:52:12) Edwens: And then I said, that’s not supposed to be a problem, to have my own account. And you having your own account with the bills or pay.

 

(00:04:01:23) Alexis: I’m not saying you cannot have your own account. What I’m saying is we can have our own and we can have a joint loan.

 

(00:04:07:11) Edwens: Why can’t I have my own personal savings? And you have your own personal savings. Plus we save for the future. And then that’s how it’s been.

 

(00:04:17:23) Alexis: We can have that and have a joint bank account.

 

(00:04:21:14) Ramit: How. Does money flow. In your. Relationship right now?

 

(00:04:26:23) Alexis: I mean, it comes in and it goes out.

 

(00:04:28:26) Ramit: Who gets paid? You get paid? Yeah.

 

(00:04:32:00) Edwens: You also.

 

(00:04:32:26) Ramit: You both have a job. Yeah. Right. And then the money comes in. Where?

 

(00:04:36:21) Alexis: Separately.

 

(00:04:37:14) Ramit: Separately. And then what?

 

(00:04:38:24) Alexis: And then he cashapp speed money.

 

(00:04:40:19) Ramit: Okay.

 

(00:04:41:21) Alexis: I am the bill payer. I’m the saver.

 

(00:04:46:02) Ramit: How do you know how much to send her?

 

(00:04:47:23) Edwens: Because I know how much you spend. Okay. How much she has to pay.

 

(00:04:51:20) Ramit: So you have a number every month. Yeah. How much is it?

 

(00:04:54:16) Edwens: 1000.

 

(00:04:55:15) Ramit: 1000. Flat. Yeah. Okay. So you. Take that thousand dollars, and then you. Use it to pay bills.

 

(00:05:00:13) Alexis: Yes.

 

(00:05:01:14) Ramit: And that’s it. That’s it. Okay. Yeah. Sounds like a pretty simple system. I like simple.

 

(00:05:06:08) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(00:05:06:25) Ramit: Where’s the problem?

 

(00:05:07:26) Alexis: It’s not always enough. And he is very much like, make it enough. So I have to hold that dilemma.

 

(00:05:16:15) Edwens: He she says not never enough. But, you know what’s going on? Tell me. Let me tell you this. When I first moved here, my first year was target, right? My conscience always told me, like, I have to get something better because, I always felt like less when she is doing more. And then I feel like I’m not doing anything. I was giving her, like, like, half of it, but it was not even enough. Okay. And then I was like. But she never brought it up. When I get the other job, like, I start making, better my own. Yeah. She was like, oh, we should make a joint account. I was like, wait, why didn’t you tell me that before when I was working at target? What makes you change your mind now? I’m making, like, a little. You think I’m a. I’m going to change. I’m going to change my personality. You think I’m going to be wasting my money? You think I’m like, I’m going to become a different person just because of that? She was. No. I’m nervous. I think you’re going to be sending your money, back to back home and then doing these windows, spending money like crazy, I say, no, why would I change if when I was making nothing? I was seeing myself like I was not doing enough for you and now I’m having. That’s where I have to show you who I am.

 

(00:06:36:21) Ramit: This is the argument that the two. Of you have used. And how does it. End.

 

(00:06:41:00) Edwens: So far? Oh, we didn’t still make the joint account. But you can ask her how I’ve been behaving myself with that.

 

(00:06:48:28) Alexis: I check out I can like I mentally I just check out. I just feel like we’re talking past each other. Because he’s coming from a place of like I’m now making more money than I was making before. And I want to show you that I can be independent. And I love that. And also now that you are making more money, you have more to contribute to the joint. You know, the pot, the shared pot. So he’s and I think he’s very much stuck on this idea that like when I was making less, you didn’t ask me for this much. Now that I’m making more, you’re asking for all these things and I’m like, because you can actually contribute them. That’s why I’m asking for them now.

 

(00:07:24:18) Ramit: Okay.

 

(00:07:25:05) Edwens: If she wants that joint account that bad, the amount that I give her, I think is enough for her to put on a side for our saving because we have a saving.

 

(00:07:38:16) Ramit: Do you catch what just happened? Alexis is saying I want us to be one unit. Edwens is saying I don’t want to lose myself. And that is part of the conflict here. See, on the surface, they are arguing about a bank account, a joint bank account. But underneath, we’re really exploring trust and pride. And what each of them believes that marriage is supposed to look like. Think about Alexis’s perspective. Money should be shared because they are building a family. For Edwens, he’s got to keep his own account because it feels like proof he’s responsible and independent. Think about their views from their own perspectives. I can kind of understand both sides, but I can also tell you this is not working. This system where he sends her $1,000 and then she manages everything. And then when it’s not enough, the answer is basically figure it out. That is not a plan. That’s not collaboration. And that creates a lot of resentment over time. My hope is to help them see this is not working. And it’s actually not normal. This is not a healthy way of dealing with money together. And there’s actually a much better way to do it. The question is, can they budge on the way they look at money, on the identity that they have created for each other, for marriage, for money, so that they can come up with a healthier dynamic? Have you two talked about your cultural differences?

 

(00:09:00:09) Alexis: They come up.

 

(00:09:01:15) Ramit: You have a ten month old, right? Yes. Do you talk about. Differences in parenting culture? Yes.

 

(00:09:06:15) Edwens: Yes we do.

 

(00:09:06:28) Ramit: Okay. What other kinds of differences. Have you talked about?

 

(00:09:10:16) Alexis: I think parenting and money are the main ones.

 

(00:09:12:22) Edwens: Parenting money and.

 

(00:09:13:25) Alexis: Family values, I think, come up to you.

 

(00:09:16:04) Ramit: That’s it. Don’t you have a lot more cultural differences? What the hell? Oh, yeah. What? Food? What? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You see, what do you like to do? Fun. There’s like a million. I can find them in 10s.

 

(00:09:27:17) Alexis: Yeah.

 

(00:09:28:04) Edwens: That’s. That’s how you.

 

(00:09:29:05) Ramit: Talking about.

 

(00:09:29:17) Edwens: This? Yeah. Did it.

 

(00:09:30:15) Ramit: Just come up.

 

(00:09:31:09) Edwens: When he comes up?

 

(00:09:32:23) Ramit: That’s my answer.

 

(00:09:33:18) Alexis: Yeah, I guess.

 

(00:09:34:24) Ramit: You talk about it. In fact, maybe even talking about cultural differences is cultural itself.

 

(00:09:40:02) Alexis: Yeah.

 

(00:09:40:27) Ramit: What do you think happens if. The two of you who. See money differently keep seeing money differently. For the rest of your lives?

 

(00:09:48:21) Alexis: Resentment? Possibly. Separation. Or just separate lives that are lived in tandem, but again, separately.

 

(00:10:00:08) Ramit: Okay. It was striking the language you used. Or you said, I don’t want to. Be married. If we don’t. Combine our finances.

 

(00:10:10:01) Edwens: That’s the one thing I got mad about. It was that’s not was what I was begging for her to say.

 

(00:10:19:15) Ramit: What would you expect her to say.

 

(00:10:20:23) Edwens: If I don’t know something I learn from it. Like if you know that you know more about it, about money than me, I was, I would prefer she said okay, let’s work on it. Okay.

 

(00:10:34:27) Ramit: Have you ever told you that?

 

(00:10:36:14) Edwens: No.

 

(00:10:37:08) Ramit: Tell her now.

 

(00:10:38:07) Edwens: I would like you to say let’s work on our budget better. Let’s work on our saving better. And then maybe let’s work on our, joint account. What?

 

(00:10:56:08) Ramit: Just. Don’t explain it. Just stop. That was great. What’s your. Reaction?

 

(00:11:00:20) Alexis: I definitely feel like you shut down when I bring up money. So when you’re asking me now to work on things with you, working on things with you requires us to talk about it. So if I bring it up and you don’t want to talk about it, how do we work on it? If I write it down and say, remember the notebook I used to have where we would put our, you know, I get paid every Friday. I put that when I got paid, how I’m going to pay for certain specific things, how I allocate that money. I ask you do the exact same thing. You don’t do it. How can we work on it? I have no idea where your paycheck goes.

 

(00:11:32:12) Edwens: As I said before, I was not making enough for me. It was not like a big deal to just give her what I. And then the thing is, in my job, I’ll be spending a lot of money cooking, buying food outside and all that.

 

(00:11:46:18) Alexis: Since and when. Those are my excuses.

 

(00:11:49:20) Edwens: Like.

 

(00:11:51:17) Ramit: Why are you guys here? You each have a story that you tell yourselves that you seem very committed to. I used to not earn a lot of money so. Therefore XYZ ABC. You you haven’t. I tried to do that. You didn’t listen. So how are we supposed to do this. Like you all want to keep repeating these. Stories because if so this will be a very short. Conversation. Or do you want to create something together?

 

(00:12:19:21) Edwens: We want to create.

 

(00:12:21:00) Alexis: I want to.

 

(00:12:21:21) Ramit: Yeah.

 

(00:12:22:09) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(00:12:23:02) Ramit: Okay. What I heard from Edwens was. I don’t like that you talk about divorce. When you’re talking about money. I would like you to not do that. What is your. Reaction to that?

 

(00:12:33:00) Alexis: I agree. I sometimes I think I take things too far when I really want to make a point and make you feel something. So I can apologize for that and I won’t do that anymore.

 

(00:12:43:13) Ramit: Great. Yeah. How’s that feel?

 

(00:12:45:21) Edwens: Better. I feel good.

 

(00:12:46:27) Ramit: Cool. That was great. And the opposite. You said to. Edwens, when I try to talk about money, you don’t want to talk about it. When I write it in notepad, you don’t want to write it? What is she really saying there?

 

(00:13:01:21) Edwens: She’s telling me she wants to know how I spend my money. What I do with my money.

 

(00:13:07:10) Ramit: No, that’s not what she’s saying. Listen to what she’s saying. Not the story that you have. The story you have is somebody trying to check. Up on. Me right? Yeah. Yeah. You never even said. That out loud. But it’s so. Obvious. It’s written all over your face. That’s a story she’s not. She hasn’t said that. What is she saying?

 

(00:13:27:11) Edwens: She’s just saying she wanted information.

 

(00:13:30:26) Ramit: Yes. So what’s your. Reaction to that?

 

(00:13:33:25) Edwens: I was not doing it, but I can do it. Now I can work on it. Tell her I can work on it.

 

(00:13:39:29) Ramit: Cool. Small details.

 

(00:13:42:28) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(00:13:43:22) Ramit: But what just happened there?

 

(00:13:46:04) Edwens: We’re connecting.

 

(00:13:46:29) Ramit: Yeah. It kind of feels good.

 

(00:13:49:24) Alexis: It does.

 

(00:13:50:09) Ramit: It’s like, what the hell? But so much of it is actually. Listening to. What they’re. Saying. Not as soon as they start saying words. You bring an old story into the picture. This is like. This is marriage 101. Did you see what just changed? Nothing about their finances really moved, but they finally stopped arguing with the version of themselves that they had created in their heads. Alexis actually admitted that she takes it too far when she brings up divorce, and Edwens was able to see that when she asks about his money. She’s not actually trying to control him. She’s maybe trying to understand him, which is a totally different conversation. This is why when we talk about money, we are rarely just talking about the numbers on a screen. We’re not talking about accounts. What we are really trying to figure out is what is our identity? What is our relationship with our partner, with money, with the way that we see the world? And can we actually listen to each other without reaching for our old stories? Is there a. Circumstance. Where you would. Combine money?

 

(00:15:02:12) Alexis: I mean, I thought it would be us having a kid. We automatically would combine money, but that might not be for you. What would you. What would it be for you?

 

(00:15:08:18) Edwens: First of all, I would combine my money with her for family and everything. But, I’m saying for future, I see it like I go more for future. Combining my money with her. Like making business.

 

(00:15:21:28) Ramit: Okay. And for family. You two are family. Yeah. You have a baby. Yeah. So would you. Combine your money. For that. Yes. Okay. That sounds good. Why have you not done it yet?

 

(00:15:33:16) Edwens: I do it. No I don’t. Know how I can do that since I don’t know. And I want to be clear with that how I do that.

 

(00:15:42:23) Ramit: Good question. Combining income is. Usually people get their paychecks. And when married. They send all of the paychecks or most of the paychecks to to. One place, one place, one checking account, and that. They have a joint checking a joint. Savings account. And that’s where all. The bills are paid out. Of things like your rent or your mortgage. Groceries, child care. Eating out comes from there. Then sometimes if people are. Smart and they read my. Book. Then they have their own. Individual accounts as well. And so they have a little. Bit of money that goes to an individual account, and they can go and do. Their hobbies or self-care, whatever they like to do. No questions asked. It’s their individual money, but most of the money when married is in the joint account.

 

(00:16:33:16) Edwens: So you’re telling me she was right this whole time? Okay, so you’re telling me, when I get pay and she get pay, most of the money has to go in one place. And, like, in the same account, me and her. Yes. You know, we can do that.

 

(00:16:56:19) Ramit: That’s it. You just needed, another. Guy to tell you that.

 

(00:17:00:10) Edwens: I mean, it’s not even.

 

(00:17:02:00) Ramit: I’m like, what the. And come on. Every woman watching this wants to kill you right now, but even I, I’m like, what in the hell do it? Just took.

 

(00:17:10:16) Alexis: Another guy. That’s crazy.

 

(00:17:12:19) Edwens: You know what I told you?

 

(00:17:15:24) Ramit: Tell me.

 

(00:17:16:09) Edwens: To me. Myself. If we have the savings. What was the difference? Okay. Between what she’s saying the joint and saving is like. It’s not the same. I mean.

 

(00:17:29:20) Ramit: So I’ll answer that question. It’s a good question. Yeah, but. I guarantee that your wife has answered this question already. What did she tell you?

 

(00:17:36:10) Edwens: Yeah. Saving and saving in the joint is for spending. And paying bills.

 

(00:17:44:16) Ramit: And what was your reaction to that.

 

(00:17:46:26) Edwens: I didn’t give her any answer to that. And I didn’t react bad. And but not good either.

 

(00:17:55:21) Ramit: Yeah. Do you trust. Her with money.

 

(00:17:59:23) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(00:18:00:14) Ramit: Do you trust her knowledge with money.

 

(00:18:02:25) Edwens: Yeah. She’s good at it.

 

(00:18:03:24) Ramit: Okay. Do you respect her?

 

(00:18:05:26) Edwens: I do. But, if I really trust her 100% with money some time, then no, because I know she likes to buy stuff. So buy. Yeah. She’s,

 

(00:18:19:15) Ramit: Like what? I like to buy stuff.

 

(00:18:20:24) Edwens: To know if she has to go to a trip. She’ll be buying a hundred stuff. Using the credit card and everything.

 

(00:18:26:26) Ramit: So you don’t like that? No. Okay. Can I ask you a question?

 

(00:18:29:27) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(00:18:30:07) Ramit: Because you two. Have not combined your money can. Afford it.

 

(00:18:36:07) Edwens: Yes and no. Okay. Because if she can’t afford it, she wouldn’t be using the credit card.

 

(00:18:42:12) Ramit: Oh. How would she do it?

 

(00:18:44:29) Edwens: She would do it with her own money. Like she can use the credit card. Like for me? For big stuff. Yeah, not for little things. Like, let’s say, a shoe. Okay. Little dress and stuff like that.

 

(00:18:56:14) Ramit: Even if she has the money to pay it off.

 

(00:18:58:07) Edwens: I mean, that’s the point is, sometimes she should be. Oh, I’ll pay it when I have it. But if you know you don’t have it, don’t touch it.

 

(00:19:09:13) Ramit: Have you all talked about this before?

 

(00:19:10:25) Alexis: All the time.

 

(00:19:12:03) Ramit: Okay. What’s your take on it? Do you agree that. You’re spending. On the credit card for stuff. You can’t afford?

 

(00:19:19:18) Alexis: No.

 

(00:19:20:14) Ramit: How much credit card debt do you have right now?

 

(00:19:22:19) Alexis: Like $1,000.

 

(00:19:24:14) Edwens: Really?

 

(00:19:25:07) Alexis: Yeah. Don’t do that. It’s literally a. It’s never been more than, like, 1500. Thought it was for. It’s paid off. And then I spend it and then I pay it off. That’s how it.

 

(00:19:34:23) Edwens: Goes. Okay. It’s.

 

(00:19:37:09) Alexis: This is a really big point of contention because this goes back to, I think, our cultural differences about money and the understanding of what credit means, what credit cards are, how they’re meant to be used. His idea that using a credit card means I’m borrowing money I don’t have, when in reality I have the money. But if I can also buy it on credit, get cash back, and then pay it right back after it. What? What’s the difference?

 

(00:20:02:20) Edwens: How long is going to take you to pay that?

 

(00:20:04:17) Alexis: Not even a month. That’s the point. We have a joint credit card, or he’s an authorized user of mine, and he sees the balance and flips out, not knowing that I already have the money to pay it off. Okay.

 

(00:20:15:00) Ramit: What’s your understanding of. How credit cards work?

 

(00:20:17:11) Edwens: I understand the credit card point. Like especially here. That’s how you you build, credit. Yeah.

 

(00:20:25:23) Ramit: So what’s the problem if she has the money to pay it off?

 

(00:20:28:08) Edwens: I know she’s going to pay, but, you know what? I don’t want to talk about it.

 

(00:20:37:18) Ramit: Can I share something with you? Yeah, I use my credit card every day. I use it for everything. Something as small as a pack of gum. Something as. Big as. International. Flight. I use it for everything. I have the money to pay it off. I’m not going into debt. I use it. Number one is convenient. Let’s pull it out. I don’t have to carry cash or all these other cards. Just boom. Number two, there’s protection. So if something goes wrong, I can call the credit card and get a refund. No problem. Easy. Three tracking. Because I spent everything. In one. Place. I can track it. I can analyze it. It’s all there. Does that surprise you to hear?

 

(00:21:19:18) Edwens: Actually, no. I read that on your book. Okay. But, yeah, I read it, but I didn’t keep it. Yeah. But now you’ve repeated it. I might work or not.

 

(00:21:30:17) Ramit: But can you see. How that’s. Frustrating that. Your wife has read it as well. She’s using credit. We’ll get to the $1,000 in credit card debt. But in general using credit. Cards for daily. Purchases. Nothing wrong with that if you can afford it. Yeah. And she’s told you this like, many, many times. And you were like, no, no, no. But then I come in and you’re like. Oh, okay.

 

(00:21:51:07) Edwens: No, I’m gonna tell you this back home. I got very struggle bad in a bad way with the credit card. Okay, so since then that’s stuck in my head. And then I think, like, I kept it, like it’s just a bad habit.

 

(00:22:04:17) Ramit: Okay.

 

(00:22:05:00) Edwens: Yeah. That’s it.

 

(00:22:05:25) Ramit: Fair enough. I can understand that. But you now are married and have a kid. This idea of, like. This thing happened to me when I was younger, and so I just don’t want to talk about it anymore. That doesn’t work. It just simply does not work. You two cannot survive. As a couple. Certainly not getting. Clarity. As you told me you wanted. If you are not willing to. Actually work together. And right now, you are not. I am. Frustrated by. Edwens’s approach. Here. It feels very unilateral. Here’s what I’m doing and not. Collaborative at all. She’s over here looking at the numbers, worrying about it. Trying to communicate. And it feels like he’s. Doing this thing where it’s. Just like, well, this is what I decided, so figure it out. At the same time, I need to acknowledge he comes from a different culture. Now, how much of that culture is being brought. Here and how much. Of it is just him? That I don’t know because I’m not an expert in his culture. But what I can say is. It is really hard to go from one culture. To another. So I want to give him a little bit of grace, but I also want to help him see that they are trying to create a successful relationship here. In the. U.S.. And they need. To know how to do that. What I look for when I speak to couples is honesty. I always promise to be honest to the people in my community. Always. You guys. Came a. Long way to speak to me. Yeah. It’s not easy. To come into. A studio and talk about all. These numbers and issues is not. Easy. I appreciate that. The last thing I want to have happen. Is you. Tell me what you think I want to. Hear. You’re actually going. To resent this conversation. If that is what you do. And right now, I get the sense you’re telling me what I want to hear. I don’t find. It believable that for years you have resisted. Against combining money. And then I give you two sentences and you. Go, okay, we go.

 

(00:24:01:10) Edwens: I was just confusing, like, between saving and joint. And just to me, it was like. It was not like, a big deal.

 

(00:24:11:24) Ramit: But it was to her.

 

(00:24:14:20) Edwens: I didn’t say it like a big deal. That’s what I consider to get pay. And then, not having the joint account to me was not like that important.

 

(00:24:26:06) Ramit: You know? You know, when I was single. I was living in New York. I was going out a lot. I was really enjoying being a single guy, and I had a lot of friends who were single guys, too. And we enjoyed the. Independence of being able to go out whenever we want. Do whatever we want. And one by one, friends started to get into serious. Relationships, the kind of at the age where that relationship is. Probably going to be the person you proposed. To, and we would talk about it. What does it feel like. To not. Be able to do whatever we want? And suddenly we have to start. Like, I got to check with my girlfriend and it feels like.

 

(00:25:04:01) Edwens: You’re trapped.

 

(00:25:05:07) Ramit: That’s one way to look at it or another way is like, God, I got to, like, think about this thing, ask for permission, or just think about. This thing in a way I never thought. About it before. Interesting language, by the. Way, that you said trapped can. Ask for permission. I wasn’t going to go. There, but. Okay. I’m guessing you have. Felt that way before.

 

(00:25:21:28) Edwens: Yeah I do.

 

(00:25:22:21) Ramit: Okay. Do you feel that way now?

 

(00:25:23:27) Edwens: No.

 

(00:25:24:20) Ramit: Okay. I think that a lot of times. Many women are not. Aware. That men, think about independence and freedom even as it. Relates to a. Person that they. Love. Here’s the thing. Once you get married. You have to find a way to see each other. As first and your unit as number. One. You can still have some independence. You are still. A grown man. Grown woman. You need to have your own hobbies and things like that. But the marriage comes first, and I can tell that that is not happening right now. Because even just now, when I asked. You, you said. Well, to me, it wasn’t a big deal. Well, I’m not interested in just to you, because you’re not. Just. A single guy anymore. You are married and in fact. You are a dad. So we have to completely recalibrate the. Way you are thinking about money and your. Relationship. Otherwise, this conversation has to end.

 

(00:26:20:05) Edwens: I agree. Really? Yeah, yeah.

 

(00:26:22:12) Ramit: So where do you want to go from here?

 

(00:26:24:09) Edwens: I want to unite. Okay. With her.

 

(00:26:27:27) Ramit: What do you want to tell her?

 

(00:26:29:03) Edwens: I want to apologize with her for not listening to her. The way I supposed to before. And then I had to come all the way here to listen to a different person. I’m sorry.

 

(00:26:44:25) Ramit: Money is a big deal. That is the. Reason that. You flew all the way. Here and you are here. Today. So I appreciate the apology. I appreciate you accepting the apology. Now the question is can we make. Some progress on what you both are here for? Shall we try? Yes. Do it. Okay. I’m in. Alexis, you. Wrote this in your application remit. We really need your help to make. A realistic. Plan. To buy. A home within the next. 2 to 3 years. It is both. Of our dreams to own something in this country. But it feels we may die as renters, godforsaken renters, if we can’t. Get on the same page. Well, first of all, first of all, tell us about this disgusting plague that is renters. Tell us about that. Oh.

 

(00:27:35:20) Alexis: I am at war with myself about what it means to be a renter. I know renting is not that bad. There are benefits to renting, but I’ve fallen in the trap of being a new mom with the baby and wanting a backyard and a picket fence and an SUV. Even with.

 

(00:27:53:03) Ramit: The babies ten.

 

(00:27:54:00) Alexis: Months old, I know, but I’m thinking ten years down the line, I want another kid. Like, okay, I want space. I think that’s what it is, is can I have space and rent? I don’t, I just don’t see the two together. That sounds so crazy.

 

(00:28:08:19) Ramit: And Edwens, do you feel the same way about owning a house? Yeah, yeah.

 

(00:28:12:10) Alexis: You looking at my browsing?

 

(00:28:15:10) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(00:28:16:19) Ramit: Can we take a look at the numbers? What was it like to do the. Conscious spending plan together?

 

(00:28:21:04) Alexis: We didn’t do it together.

 

(00:28:22:28) Ramit: We did it.

 

(00:28:23:15) Edwens: No.

 

(00:28:24:10) Alexis: You can take a guess.

 

(00:28:25:23) Ramit: You did it. Yeah, I did it. Yeah. Why did you not do it together?

 

(00:28:29:14) Alexis: He didn’t give me answers to his column, so I honestly just guessed there wasn’t really an opening to have a conversation to do it together. So I was just breadcrumb ING and putting stuff on the spreadsheet by myself. I think it was just easier to go by myself, honestly, because again, I’m the one paying all the bills. I know all the numbers already, so I just put everything out there.

 

(00:28:49:04) Ramit: It’s got to be frustrating.

 

(00:28:51:24) Alexis: A little bit. I’m also a control freak, so I don’t mind it. Oh, I know honestly.

 

(00:28:56:00) Ramit: So what’s the problem? Let’s wrap it up.

 

(00:28:57:11) Alexis: Well, yeah, it’s annoying at times, but it.

 

(00:29:00:15) Ramit: So it has. Got to be more than annoying. It’s got to be frustrating that your husband resisted. Combining accounts until another man came along and. Said, hey, you should do it. He goes. Alright, sounds good. And then. The CSP, which has. Explicit instructions to. Do it together. And then you couldn’t. Get your. Husband to do it. Am I blowing this up into something that’s not. Or are you frustrated at this? Yeah.

 

(00:29:26:16) Alexis: I yeah it is. It is frustrating.

 

(00:29:30:29) Ramit: Why are you. Not acknowledging your frustration? It comes across in your application very clearly.

 

(00:29:38:02) Alexis: I don’t want to make him feel guilty. There’s a lot of value for him. And feeling like the provider. You know, the husband, the man. And I think I want to. I want him to have that and I want to provide that for him or like, reinforce that for him. But it is it is frustrating that like, I feel like behind closed doors, I’m doing that.

 

(00:29:59:15) Ramit: Edwens. Is that. An issue? Being the provider, the man.

 

(00:30:03:03) Edwens: At first I used to feel like that, but, now I feel like I’m not going to say 5050, but I can say it’s like 45 and 50. Yeah. But 4555, 4550.

 

(00:30:15:27) Ramit: For the income.

 

(00:30:16:19) Edwens: Yeah. Okay.

 

(00:30:17:17) Ramit: And then. What about the fact that she’s doing all of the work. With the money.

 

(00:30:22:16) Edwens: I just don’t give that much value to I she, she been doing like.

 

(00:30:33:10) Ramit: Oh that’s. Kind of honest. I never really heard. A guy admit that before. Yeah, but what if she just stopped?

 

(00:30:40:12) Edwens: I’ll have to do it myself.

 

(00:30:42:26) Ramit: Yeah, why don’t you?

 

(00:30:44:10) Edwens: I would say, just see, like it’s more simple for her.

 

(00:30:48:09) Ramit: Oh, yeah. Simple. She’s better at it.

 

(00:30:53:09) Alexis: I’m getting now. I’m getting frustrated. No, no. Oh, really? Now I’m actually getting frustrated.

 

(00:30:56:28) Ramit: Go ahead.

 

(00:30:57:07) Alexis: Tell me if I literally stopped paying the bills, which I’ve done. You don’t step in to actually do that. So to say that you’ll just. I’ll have to do it. You don’t. And then the bill doesn’t get paid and then it’s late and then you still don’t do it. So then I just do it. So I rather you just sit here and I’m sorry that I’m actually getting frustrated. I don’t want to, like, again, make you feel attacked. The defensive. But, like, I just you really don’t care. I just feel like you don’t care.

 

(00:31:26:03) Edwens: I don’t really like to be apologizing so much, but I’m sorry. I’m lazy. I’m sorry.

 

(00:31:33:03) Ramit: I think this goes beyond apologizing. Yeah, I actually think if. We were to just wrap it up. Right now, what do you think would happen?

 

(00:31:42:04) Alexis: Things like go back to the way they already are.

 

(00:31:43:25) Ramit: Yeah. I don’t know if you see the dynamic between the. Two of you, which is Alexis. You have taken on this role of, I’m going to solve things in many ways. I’m going to be the. Mother figure, the. Parent child dynamic. And he came here from another country. He didn’t understand how credit works. So like, I have. To do it and explain it. But then when you do. He is resistant. In part because. Of culture, which. I respect, coming to a different. Culture. American finance is very confusing from the outside. But also an. Unwillingness to. Listen. I don’t think you are listening to what. Your wife is saying. Meanwhile, it goes back. You then attempt to comfort him. Because of this perception you have that the. Provider and he needs to be the man in a relationship. And a man needs to not be made to feel guilty. So you say. Things like, well, I’m actually a control freak. It’s actually not that bad. It’s easier for me to do it myself. So I will say, what you’re doing is actually working. It is working for both of you. Bills get paid. He doesn’t have to feel guilty. You don’t have to do this stuff. You don’t want to do. Because she’s. Paying the bills. And you can send money back, and everybody’s doing their thing. So it’s working. It’s getting you the results that you have built for. It will work. Until it stops. Working. And rather than address this. What you have both decided to do is let’s go buy a house. We already got the SUV. Let’s go buy a house. How does what I just said strike you?

 

(00:33:21:22) Alexis: That petrified me.

 

(00:33:22:29) Ramit: But you’re the one who wrote in asking. For help to buy a house. There is no universe. In which I’m in a dynamic like this. And I would. Go buy a house. No way. Right. You know, people who are in relationships that are not working and they go, you know what we need to do? Have a baby. And you watch them on TikTok and you. But is that not similar to what’s happening here?

 

(00:33:47:22) Alexis: It’s exactly what’s happening.

 

(00:33:49:14) Ramit: I’m concerned that you’re being a little too agreeable with me. You’re agreeing with everything. And when that happens, especially. For deeply held beliefs. Then the minute you walk. Out of here, everybody goes back to the way they were. I’m concerned there’s so much. We pull one layer apart, there’s another layer, then we pull, there’s another layer, and we haven’t even gotten to the numbers. Like when we look. At the numbers, there are things that need to change. And they’re going to make both of you uncomfortable. But I’m not sure. If you are both ready for that. You came a long way to see me. I respect that. If you tell me we want to do this together, I will do it. If you tell me I’m done. I’m done too. So I’m going to propose we. Take a break. The two. You are going to have some private time together. Go for a five minute walk. Think about what you want to do. I’m gonna leave the decision up to you. We continue, or we don’t. But it can’t go on like this.

 

(00:34:50:05) Edwens: Okay. Yeah.

 

(00:34:51:19) Ramit: Let’s take a break. Honestly, at this point I was contemplating just ending the podcast because I didn’t really know where to go. Every time I ask one question another layer would come up. And so I asked them to actually step outside and decide if they want to be here and if they want to continue. I don’t do this often, but when I ask a couple to step outside and talk about it and decide if they want to come back, what I’m really doing is I am taking the reins that they have invariably handed to me, and I am handing them back because I’m not here to save anybody. This conversation, while I may be facilitating or even probing, it’s ultimately up to them what they want to do. Either we are here for a reason and we’re going to have those hard conversations or we stop. I don’t mind if somebody disagrees with me. I don’t mind if they see things differently. But if they tell me what they think I want to hear just so we can wrap this up, why waste the time? And I think that is Edwens’s pattern. Agree quickly. Make the discomfort go away. Move on. But that doesn’t work here. That’s not what we are here for. And Alexis has her own pattern, too. She keeps trying to persuade him to soften the message so that he understands. But she hasn’t actually said. This is what I need in this relationship. That’s why I asked them to take this break. If they come back, it can’t be to keep performing the same conversation. It has to be because they are ready to do the work. Hey guys. Welcome back. Thank you. What did you decide?

 

(00:36:30:19) Alexis: We’re here and we’re ready to play ball.

 

(00:36:32:15) Ramit: Okay.

 

(00:36:33:00) Edwens: Yep.

 

(00:36:33:25) Ramit: Cool. What happened?

 

(00:36:35:26) Alexis: We talked. I mean we came all this way. We have a goal we really want to achieve together. And we just didn’t realize how hard it would be to like, dig up all our past conversations and past arguments and. Yeah. Yeah it’s been hard.

 

(00:36:49:06) Edwens: Okay. I know you said, you concerned about. Once I walk out of here, I might go back to the same thing again. I would say that’s not why we’re here. We’re here to make things better, to, work on our future. We want to do better for us and for our family.

 

(00:37:13:02) Ramit: So I appreciate.

 

(00:37:14:16) Edwens: That. Yeah.

 

(00:37:15:20) Ramit: Thank you. I appreciate you really. Thinking about it. Here’s where I want to go. I want to look at the numbers that’s going to help. Me ground. My understanding. Of what. Has been going on. I’m going to ask you a lot of questions about the numbers. If you know them, tell me the answer. If you don’t know. Tell me that.

 

(00:37:35:02) Edwens: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

 

(00:37:36:19) Ramit: Let’s look at the numbers. Alexis. Can you read me the word in bold and the number next. To it for this entire box, please?

 

(00:37:46:27) Alexis: Assets 12,000. Investments 44,367. Savings 5500. That 26,468. And the total net worth is 35,399.

 

(00:38:02:09) Ramit: Okay. What do you think about those numbers?

 

(00:38:04:12) Alexis: I think our assets are decent. That’s our car. Investments. I’m proud of that. And that. That’s the Jeep. Okay. So not.

 

(00:38:16:24) Ramit: Bad. Edwens, what do you think about those numbers?

 

(00:38:19:29) Edwens: I think we’re not bad, but we can be better. Okay. Yeah.

 

(00:38:26:17) Ramit: Let’s take a look. At the income this time. Edwens, can you read. Me your. Combined monthly. Gross. Income, please?

 

(00:38:34:20) Edwens: 10,251.

 

(00:38:37:03) Ramit: Okay. 10,251. So you make about, $120,000. Per year as a household. Yeah. Did you know that?

 

(00:38:45:09) Alexis: Yeah.

 

(00:38:46:04) Ramit: You knew that, Alexis. Did you know that?

 

(00:38:47:20) Edwens: Edwens? No.

 

(00:38:48:23) Ramit: No. Okay. 50%. Thank you for confirming my statistic. Yeah. What did you think that. Your household. Made?

 

(00:38:57:18) Edwens: I was thinking about 80, 80 something. Okay, yeah.

 

(00:39:01:04) Ramit: So you make a lot more than that?

 

(00:39:03:01) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(00:39:04:05) Ramit: Like 30 grand. More than that. So what does that tell you?

 

(00:39:08:18) Edwens: That I make, good money? I would say that I make.

 

(00:39:13:13) Ramit: 40 grand more. Let’s continue. By the way, what the hell are all these notes? It’s like an essay on the side of a CSV. What is this?

 

(00:39:21:28) Alexis: I think those are things that, like reflections, I guess I was having as I was putting the numbers there. Yeah. I think that’s more just me.

 

(00:39:29:05) Ramit: Just let me just read some of this because this is like they’re just for everybody. Not watching but listening. What? On the CSP, there’s like several paragraphs. Of. Notes, which is like a description. You have a son. And we have a spending plan that helps. Us achieve our goals. Edwens refuses. To combine finances for. Ego’s sake, and then Alexis is frustrated. Edwens is big chillin since he is making big money according. To Dominican standards. Edwens answered the question, is it true that you are indeed big shilling?

 

(00:40:07:02) Edwens: Jesus, that was not speaking. Not at all from.

 

(00:40:09:28) Alexis: Yes or no?

 

(00:40:12:01) Ramit: Yes or no? Answer the question.

 

(00:40:13:22) Edwens: I’ll say yes. Yes yes.

 

(00:40:16:21) Ramit: Yes yes. Let the record reflect. He is. Indeed. Big chili. Yes. All right. Let’s go down to the rest of it. Fixed costs. What’s that number? Right there.

 

(00:40:29:06) Alexis: Alexis, 71%.

 

(00:40:31:17) Ramit: Okay, so that’s higher than we typically like to see. Usually like to see it 50 to 60%. Okay. It’s a. 71. It’s high. But we could probably. Bring that down in some way. Okay. Next up we have. Investments at. 6%. Okay. That includes, $200 a month. For the baby. Putting some investment aside. Yeah. All right. We have savings at 12%, including sending money back to Dominican Republic. Yeah, and then finally, guilt free spending at 11%. Is that number accurate? You spend $1,100 a month on guilt free spending? Yeah, I’m eating out. Amazon. Yeah. Right on. Yeah. Yeah. So these numbers are accurate. Oh I love it. Can I just say I love the. Confidence in that. Answer. All of it. That’s what I want to hear. I don’t need somebody. To know how much they spend on lettuce every month. I don’t care. But when I. Talk to somebody and I ask them their four. Key numbers and then I say, are those numbers. Accurate? You better say all of it. That means you know your numbers. That is. Impressive. Well done. Okay. If this is the case at 71% what does this. Conscious spending plan. Tell you.

 

(00:41:49:05) Alexis: I think we really try to balance between short term and long term fun. So savings is really important. But guilt free spending is also as important. I think investment is something that I think we’re both trying to learn better. So that’s why it’s a little bit lower, but definitely something that I really want to improve on as well.

 

(00:42:06:02) Ramit: So I would say your word is balance. Yeah we are. Okay. Edwens, what about you?

 

(00:42:13:08) Edwens: I have learned a lot from her when it comes to that. She enjoy more being out and stuff like that. But me, I’m, like more home person. But I do spend a lot. And, like, more eating and I’ll be spending money and food.

 

(00:42:28:15) Ramit: Okay, so that’s where you see your expenses.

 

(00:42:32:07) Edwens: Yeah. And also also personal stuff like clothes and shoes.

 

(00:42:36:21) Ramit: Where’s that? Clothes here I see $150 a month. Okay. And that would be. Shoes as well.

 

(00:42:43:03) Edwens: Yeah. Yeah. Or let’s include.

 

(00:42:44:20) Ramit: Shoes. All right. But it’s interesting that when I. Asked, what does the. KSP tell me about you as. A couple, I heard balance. And then from you. I heard I like to buy shoes and and I think what. You’re probably noticing is like. This recurring. Pattern you have of answering as a single guy. Yeah, I’m not sure. Can I just tell you, like, we have two people right here. Have. Edwens the single guy. And Edwens the married man. I’m actually not here to talk to. Edwens the single guy. Okay, so can we.

 

(00:43:13:10) Edwens: Yeah, yeah. Get rid of him. My my man. All right.

 

(00:43:15:27) Ramit: Talk to me. Is Edwens the married husband and father?

 

(00:43:19:16) Edwens: I would say we try to have balance for everything.

 

(00:43:22:26) Ramit: Does anybody want to make a change to this? You want to make a change, Alexis? If you could change anything, what would it be?

 

(00:43:28:26) Alexis: Bring our fixed costs down. And if we can’t bring it down, then at least let’s divide it up a little bit more equitably.

 

(00:43:36:20) Ramit: Okay. So speaking of. The equity of this let’s. Look at the income. What’s going on. With the income here. One person is making $10,251 a month. Who’s that. That’s you, Alexis Edwens. What’s your income? Also, why is it not on here?

 

(00:43:55:25) Alexis: He doesn’t know.

 

(00:43:57:01) Edwens: Oh, the other thing is, I didn’t check my my my pay stub stuff before I come here. But I would say, let’s say if I say how much I make, every two weeks. Yeah. Can we get to that?

 

(00:44:11:05) Ramit: Maybe, but I don’t really want to do the math. You knew you were going to get your ass roasted coming here, right? You knew it. Like it’s. You couldn’t even pull out your pay stub. Honestly, like walking in here. You’re lucky this is all you’ve gotten. I’m tempted to tear your ass apart. Can’t even pull up your gross income.

 

(00:44:29:15) Alexis: The easiest question of today.

 

(00:44:32:07) Ramit: You knew it was going to happen, right? Yeah. Okay. Enough said. I don’t need to belabor the point. You have your net, which I think is because. That’s how much comes into the. Account. Yeah. Okay, cool. All jokes aside. This is the kind of thing. Where. If you all want to take it to the next. Level. To be. Connected. Like, this is actually the simplest thing of. All pulling off a pay. Stub. We shouldn’t even be talking about it. Yeah. We should be far beyond that. Cool. So I’m trying to set a standard for what we do together because this is easy. This should be. Done. And we have more complex. Things to tackle. All right. All right. So your take home pay is 4000, Edwens. Yeah. Okay. And the. Net income for. You, Alexis, is about 6000. Cool. 6000. 4000? Roughly 10,000. Take home 10,000. Take home. But your gross is 10,251. Oh, because you didn’t. Okay, y’all see. What’s going on here? This is probably more like, I don’t know, I’m picking a number. Don’t get mad at me because I’m wildly wrong, but it’s something 6000, which means your gross income is like. 16,000. A month.

 

(00:45:43:29) Alexis: Yeah.

 

(00:45:45:04) Ramit: That’s a lot more money.

 

(00:45:46:22) Alexis: That’s how much you make before taxes. Yeah.

 

(00:45:49:21) Edwens: Per month?

 

(00:45:50:29) Alexis: Yeah. Biweekly is two times two.

 

(00:45:53:24) Edwens: Wait, if I make a. Yeah. 6000. Yeah. Let’s see. Yeah.

 

(00:45:58:01) Ramit: I don’t know what your gross income is, but I know. That it’s like, At least $150,000. So considering Edwens that you thought you were making 80, you’re probably making double that.

 

(00:46:10:11) Edwens: Then.

 

(00:46:12:20) Ramit: That’s kind of shocking, right. Where’s the money? Yeah. If we’re making all this money, where is it? I would be pissed. Not at her.

 

(00:46:22:08) Edwens: On myself.

 

(00:46:23:01) Ramit: Yes.

 

(00:46:25:16) Edwens: We don’t see the money.

 

(00:46:27:06) Ramit: You only see what’s in. Your account and then you transfer. Over. You don’t have a unified view of your money. How can you see it if you don’t all look at it? So the two of you make 120 net. That’s after tax. Which means you make God knows. But one 5160. Something like. It’s a lot of money. So your fixed cost at 71%. Let’s just go. Through real quick. Your rent is 1875. That’s pretty low. Small place but quite low. 12% of net. That’s amazing. If it were me I’d be like don’t move. Stay there for as long as you can. What’s going on right now? You’re confused.

 

(00:47:10:23) Edwens: Yeah, I’m kind of confused because. Did you do that right?

 

(00:47:14:17) Alexis: Because of course I did. This is. I know you don’t know our numbers because. Yeah, this is all right.

 

(00:47:20:23) Ramit: 12% of gross.

 

(00:47:22:06) Edwens: Year.

 

(00:47:22:24) Ramit: For your. Household, not. Net gross. Is amazing. And you’re like, why is this guy saying amazing? I don’t feel amazing, right?

 

(00:47:30:03) Edwens: Yeah. Okay, let’s see how I’m feeling. I’m just honest.

 

(00:47:33:09) Ramit: I respect that. Yeah. Two things. Number one. Your feelings are. Often not the same as. The actual numbers. Yeah, that’s very common. You know how many multi-millionaires I talk to you in there? Oh, I don’t have enough for me.

 

(00:47:48:05) Alexis: I’m not wealthy. I’m actually just slightly.

 

(00:47:50:05) Ramit: Making it by. Shut up. You’re wealthy. Oh, what? Their feelings are out of touch with reality. Probably the same way yours are. Yeah. Okay. Next, we got to go through. Each of them, so you understand?

 

(00:48:02:13) Edwens: Yeah. Maybe at the end, I might. Okay. Yeah.

 

(00:48:04:27) Ramit: All right, listen up. Utilities 170, fund insurance 1043. Is that a lot?

 

(00:48:12:00) Alexis: Health insurance. Yeah. Yeah.

 

(00:48:13:15) Ramit: All right. It is what it is. Okay. Can’t do anything about that. Next up, car. Payment. 630. That’s the Jeep. Yeah. How long until. That’s paid off?

 

(00:48:23:20) Alexis: Hopefully less than ten years.

 

(00:48:26:05) Ramit: What?

 

(00:48:26:24) Alexis: No, actually, no, I think it was a seven year loan.

 

(00:48:28:26) Edwens: Seven years.

 

(00:48:29:18) Ramit: You got a seven year loan on a car? What? Why?

 

(00:48:32:05) Alexis: The payment was decent.

 

(00:48:33:26) Ramit: What’s the payment? Every month.

 

(00:48:35:29) Alexis: Like, for 77.

 

(00:48:38:03) Ramit: It’s not bad. But it is seven years. What’s the interest rate? Just out of curiosity.

 

(00:48:42:00) Alexis: Like 7%.

 

(00:48:44:00) Ramit: All right, y’all got ripped off. That might include there the yoga ripped off, but you walked into it. You bought this cool Jeep. So cool. And this sucks, but you have. It so you can’t do anything about. It. Let’s move on. It could be worse. Baby Aaron, this includes diapers, clothes, and daycare. Okay. I was like, diapers cost. 1600 bucks a.

 

(00:49:05:06) Edwens: Month. It does include everything.

 

(00:49:07:03) Ramit: So this is going to go on for a while.

 

(00:49:08:19) Edwens: Yeah. All right.

 

(00:49:09:20) Ramit: Fine. Groceries at 400. That’s it. I don’t believe that.

 

(00:49:14:02) Edwens: No, I would say for the for the grocery, we can say 600. 600. Yeah.

 

(00:49:21:09) Ramit: All right. That’s going to change things considerably. Watch this. Watch this number up here. 71%. That’s just jump to 74%. Not so rosy anymore. Clothes. I know it’s not 100 for you. How much is it per month?

 

(00:49:34:04) Edwens: Clothes? Yeah. Let’s say at least, 300.

 

(00:49:39:16) Ramit: Let’s add more to that, because I can tell by your answer. It’s more. 500.

 

(00:49:43:12) Edwens: Oh, Jesus.

 

(00:49:44:20) Ramit: The number. Now you’re at 79% fixed costs. Is that reasonable, by the way? 500 a month? I think it is. Clothes. You go out and buy two shirts.

 

(00:49:53:04) Alexis: That hat. You love hats.

 

(00:49:54:24) Edwens: Keep it. 400.

 

(00:49:56:04) Ramit: Great. 400. Phone is $40 total. Is that. Right? Someone’s paying $15 a month for their phone.

 

(00:50:03:17) Edwens: I’m paying.

 

(00:50:04:13) Alexis: You. Yeah.

 

(00:50:05:10) Ramit: How?

 

(00:50:06:08) Alexis: It’s a promotion.

 

(00:50:07:21) Ramit: How long is that last for?

 

(00:50:08:20) Alexis: Five years.

 

(00:50:09:22) Ramit: What’s drop the. Company?

 

(00:50:12:11) Alexis: Visible. Visible.

 

(00:50:13:29) Ramit: Guys visible. Get in touch. Visible. I’m giving you a free promo right now. That’s amazing. 50. I thought you’d say like, oh, it’s. Good for a month. I was like, oh, no, five years, five years. Okay, cool. Subscriptions. How much are you paying in subscriptions?

 

(00:50:26:24) Edwens: Edwens 60. I was saying this is a between the gym and my phone, and that’s a 16.

 

(00:50:32:12) Alexis: Oh. The phone.

 

(00:50:33:06) Ramit: So how much is your gym?

 

(00:50:34:18) Edwens: I pay like, 300 for the whole year. Yeah, yeah. All right.

 

(00:50:38:27) Ramit: That’s pretty reasonable. Let’s leave this at 40, which it was. And then we have miscellaneous, which is stuff you have not counted. We always add in 15% miscellaneous for stuff. In this case. It’s. $1,000 a month. Which is a lot of money. I want to point out that you’re at 77% fixed costs. Now let’s give some context. I don’t mind. Higher fixed costs if you have lower guilt free spending. Some people are like, I want to live in a nicer place. It’s important to me. We’re going to eat out less. That’s totally up to you. In your case, you. That’s effectively what you have done. But you’re. Overspending because look it now only allows you $438 a month. For guilt. Free spending. And I know you’re spending more than that.

 

(00:51:30:08) Alexis: Yeah.

 

(00:51:31:21) Ramit: So what has happened here is you’re actually spending more. Are you drawing into your savings. Have you noticed your savings are going down? That’s why. Yeah.

 

(00:51:40:05) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(00:51:40:22) Ramit: And I will point out one other thing, which. Is you’ll have a super cheap rent. So if I see a super cheap rent, that means. That I’m like. Oh, this fixed costs entire categories should probably be pretty low because. Rent is the hardest thing to bring down. For people. Yeah. But you have a super cheap rent, but then you have all these other. Expenses and like. Childcare for example, unavoidable. But that’s really expensive. So y’all could do it, but it doesn’t leave you a lot of extra money.

 

(00:52:15:13) Edwens: I think, we have to spend less. Especially for our, personal stuff. Okay. And then save more I would say.

 

(00:52:28:13) Ramit: Let’s look at savings.

 

(00:52:29:12) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(00:52:29:27) Ramit: So right now your savings are at 12%. Not bad. 12% I like to see that number 5 to 10%. But like if you make more considering the two of you make more than the average person. I like to see that number up. Because you can afford to save more. So 12 is good. I wouldn’t mind if it was like 15. Okay. I’m looking at your investments at 6%. A little low. In my opinion. You have 44,000. Have you calculated how much you will have in the future.

 

(00:52:58:22) Alexis: I feel like I did that a year ago. I haven’t done.

 

(00:53:00:14) Ramit: It. What did you end up with?

 

(00:53:02:07) Alexis: Close to a million.

 

(00:53:03:15) Ramit: Okay. Is it enough?

 

(00:53:05:21) Alexis: No.

 

(00:53:06:07) Ramit: Hell, no.

 

(00:53:06:24) Alexis: Yeah. No no.

 

(00:53:07:08) Ramit: No. So how come there’s no focus on increasing that number?

 

(00:53:11:15) Alexis: I feel like I’m pinching. Right now.

 

(00:53:14:01) Ramit: Have you talked about this with Edwens.

 

(00:53:16:00) Alexis: We don’t talk about retirement. That’s not even a conversation right now. I just got him to open up A41K with this current employer. So that took a lot of like educating and explaining. Yeah. And so we haven’t even really gotten into it.

 

(00:53:30:01) Ramit: What’s happening here is way bigger than just a pay stub. Alexis is not just managing the bills. She’s also trying to teach Edwens how money works in a country. He didn’t grow up in. And that includes concepts like credit cards for one case, joint accounts. All of these things might seem obvious to you if you were raised around them, but they’re not obvious to everyone. So I want to give Edwens some grace. It is hard enough to learn an entirely new financial system while also becoming a husband, a father building a life in a new country. Now I’ll give him grace, but that doesn’t mean he gets to opt out of this process, because right now, Alexis is carrying the numbers and the planning and the worrying. She’s taking it all on herself. And if they want to be a real financial team, he’s got to stop seeing money as something that she is in charge of and start seeing it as something that they own together. Does it feel weird to. Have to learn about money from your wife?

 

(00:54:32:06) Edwens: It does, but at the same time, I feel like I feel good with it because I have learned a lot from her.

 

(00:54:38:23) Ramit: And then. When she. We’ll talk about, like, for example, a 401 K, she’s like, hey. You should open one up. What’s your reaction to that?

 

(00:54:46:19) Edwens: I say yes because I of course, I want, I want to have my retirement. Cool. Yeah.

 

(00:54:52:10) Ramit: All right. You have. Money being set. Aside for this house. Can you just clarify that for me?

 

(00:54:58:09) Alexis: We really want to own something. We’ve only rented for two years and again, I’ve also lived just live with my parents before we were married. So I really haven’t even lived on my own long enough. But I feel like the money that we’re spending on rent doesn’t feel worth it. And I feel like if I were to own something and have space, it just, I feel like I’m actually spending my money on something of value. And so that’s what I’m saving for.

 

(00:55:22:03) Ramit: Got it. And the way that you are. Saving for. A house is your. Looks like you’re putting money in an investment account.

 

(00:55:28:20) Alexis: Partially. And I also have a high interest, or high yield savings account.

 

(00:55:33:24) Ramit: Okay, so I see. $400 a month going. To retirement taxable account.

 

(00:55:39:23) Alexis: Right?

 

(00:55:40:21) Ramit: Which includes your Roth IRA and house fund. Right. And I. See a. Long term emergency fund of $600 a month.

 

(00:55:48:00) Alexis: Yeah.

 

(00:55:48:24) Ramit: Okay. And then there’s another question I had on savings. Edwens. It says. Sending money back to Dominican Republic. For. Family support. Tell me about that.

 

(00:55:59:07) Edwens: I do that every every two, two weeks. I send sometime I may send 260 if my son. I have another son at home. Okay. If he needs, like, something, a little toy or something. But normal is 200.

 

(00:56:14:27) Ramit: Okay, so 200 every two weeks or. 400 a month. Yeah. Okay. Any issue with that?

 

(00:56:20:01) Edwens: None so far. No.

 

(00:56:21:20) Alexis: So far it was a non-negotiable from the beginning. I understood it and it made sense. So we always factor that into, like, a bill.

 

(00:56:28:03) Ramit: Was there something. I read in the application or something about. Like if you. Combine money, then you’re concerned that. She is going to check. On your how much money you’re sending back.

 

(00:56:39:21) Edwens: Yeah. That was like my personal saving. I wanted to I was like, concerned about that because I felt like she was doing too much. Okay. No, it doesn’t sound like it. I was just scared, like, to to have my little savings on the side. Like, I feel like she would have a problem with that. And then that was my concern.

 

(00:57:02:17) Ramit: Was it a real concern?

 

(00:57:04:00) Edwens: Yes. I told you everything. Come up to my heads. And when I switch up.

 

(00:57:08:00) Ramit: When you started making a lot more money.

 

(00:57:09:09) Edwens: Yeah, yeah. I was like, it’s.

 

(00:57:10:11) Ramit: Kind of weird. Like you started making a lot more money in. It seems like you became very. Protective.

 

(00:57:14:09) Edwens: And protective. Like the way she reacted. I wish I, I recall the moment, when she is like, oh, you finally going to be making money? Like, you might change my channel. I said, oh, and then I was like, wow, why she’s reacting like that.

 

(00:57:31:13) Ramit: But can I tell you, like if if my partner. Was not making money for a long time.

 

(00:57:37:08) Edwens: Yeah. Okay.

 

(00:57:38:07) Ramit: And I was, like, covering a bunch of expenses, and then suddenly she got. A good job. Yeah, she. Started making a lot more money. First of all, I’d be really excited for her. Congratulations. Let’s celebrate. And then I would also be like, let’s talk about it. Like, we. Got to have some of that money come towards. The family. Yeah.

 

(00:57:54:02) Edwens: Right. But I was not, against that, I was, but I that’s how she, I would, I was I was always telling her if you really want to know who you have with you, that’s where you prove it. To see if I’m going to contribute it. Yeah. Things in the house like.

 

(00:58:10:20) Ramit: I’m not into that.

 

(00:58:11:27) Edwens: Oh, you’re not into it.

 

(00:58:12:26) Ramit: Can I tell you I respect that that is how you feel. Yeah. I wonder how much of that comes from the. Way you grew up. Yeah. That idea you have of. Now that I’m making money instead of me contributing to the family. You need to watch me. Because I need to prove to you that I’m not bad. That is not congruent with. A high earning family. Like, that’s not how a couple that makes $160,000 talks.

 

(00:58:41:07) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(00:58:41:21) Ramit: Don’t even think that way. And what I’m trying to. Do here is to show you I have. Earned low amounts of money, and I’ve earned high amounts of money. And I want to meet you where you are and show. You how a couple that. Makes the kind of money you. Do at your age. Thinks and acts. I need you to know that. Okay. Yeah. You’re sending money back to D.R.. Great. It’s not a problem. Great. You’re saving money for a house. Okay. We can talk about that. You are overspending every month. That is clear. So we need to figure that. Out as well. Can I ask a little bit about how you each. Grew up with money. What do you remember your family saying about money when you were a kid?

 

(00:59:19:14) Edwens: They’ll be fighting all the time like we need. We need to buy these. We need to buy that. We don’t have enough. You have to do to go work extra somewhere. You need to find out. Because my my dad was a a painter, and then my mom just doing braids cause and then. But they used to make, money, but, the same time they would be always arguing.

 

(00:59:43:03) Ramit: Arguing. That they did not have enough.

 

(00:59:44:13) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(00:59:45:03) Ramit: They wouldn’t. And who. Is saying.

 

(00:59:46:12) Edwens: That? My dad.

 

(00:59:47:16) Ramit: Your dad. Was saying that to your.

 

(00:59:48:24) Edwens: Mom? Yeah.

 

(00:59:49:29) Ramit: So he was telling. Your dad was. Telling your mom? Yeah. You’re not making.

 

(00:59:52:29) Edwens: Enough. Yeah.

 

(00:59:54:19) Ramit: And then what.

 

(00:59:55:09) Edwens: Do you say then? My mom would be, fighting him back.

 

(00:59:58:10) Ramit: So what did they do?

 

(00:59:59:13) Edwens: You want me to tell you the truth? Yeah. They’re still fighting.

 

(01:00:02:25) Ramit: They’re still fighting?

 

(01:00:03:21) Edwens: Yeah. Because of money. Wow. They’re still fighting.

 

(01:00:07:10) Ramit: You think they like it?

 

(01:00:09:07) Edwens: And they’re still together the same and going through the same problems. Last thing I did when we filed our taxes, I talked to her, and I said. I said, baby, I need what I need 1000 just to solve, little bills that they have at home. Cause I know they were crying about it all the time. Just so not hearing the phone call. Or can you help me with these? And while I say, baby, just please borrow me that, and then I’m just gonna fix that problem back home so I can be in peace.

 

(01:00:41:24) Ramit: What similarities. Do you see. Between your parents and what’s going on right here?

 

(01:00:47:03) Edwens: Money are good.

 

(01:00:48:02) Ramit: Yeah. How long you been fighting about money?

 

(01:00:50:21) Edwens: Since we got together. Yeah.

 

(01:00:53:05) Ramit: Yeah. And your parents have been married. How many. Decades?

 

(01:00:55:20) Edwens: Oh, they’ve been together, at least for 38, 30, 40 years. Yeah.

 

(01:01:01:23) Ramit: Y’all been together two years. You want to. Fight for the next 38.

 

(01:01:04:03) Edwens: Years? No, that’s not our plan. Oh, really? You know.

 

(01:01:07:03) Ramit: Okay, good. Cause that sucks.

 

(01:01:10:02) Edwens: Yeah, that’s that’s. We’ve seen so much. We’ve seen so much.

 

(01:01:13:29) Ramit: It is amazing to me that. You know, I meet a lot of people who grew. Up with parents who fought about money all the time, and then they’re. In exactly. The same situation. And they don’t go like, I’m sick of this. Sick enough to make a change. They just go. It’s kind of annoying and like. I wish my wife would do this or my husband would do that, but they don’t. They don’t say, I’m so sick of this. I’m going to. Find a way to put an end to it. I could see you guys easily going on 40. Years and fighting about money.

 

(01:01:43:17) Alexis: Dang. Don’t care so much.

 

(01:01:45:23) Ramit: It’s not a curse. It’s just reality. There’s no. There is no changes you have made on your own that would prevent you from fighting about money. I’m not trying to be a hard ass. I’m trying to tell you what I see. You came to ask? In fact, if anything. The two of you have moved further apart with your money as you started. To earn more. Edwens. The two of you have moved further apart.

 

(01:02:07:25) Edwens: Yeah. I can see.

 

(01:02:09:24) Ramit: That compounds. Over. Soon it’s impossible. To get out of it.

 

(01:02:13:09) Alexis: Yeah.

 

(01:02:14:09) Ramit: So there’s that. And then this, this sort of, like, idea of. Roles and, like, man and woman. That’s present here as well. I’m pointing this out because. A lot of times we do things we don’t even know why we’re doing it, but. It’s because that’s what we saw growing up.

 

(01:02:31:12) Edwens: You’re right.

 

(01:02:32:26) Ramit: And I think, you know, there are. Cultures where. A man handles money and a woman does not. There are cultures.

 

(01:02:41:09) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(01:02:41:28) Ramit: There are also cultures where it’s the opposite. Man makes the money, brings the. Paycheck home, gives it to his wife. She handles it for the entire family. Now you all can decide. What culture, what practices you want to adopt. You decide.

 

(01:02:56:03) Edwens: I guess that’s what I was trying to do with her.

 

(01:02:58:06) Ramit: But you were trying to do that, right?

 

(01:03:00:09) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(01:03:00:27) Ramit: Okay. So can I ask you like the way you were raised? Does the. Man make you money and give it to.

 

(01:03:06:00) Edwens: The way? That’s how it works. Okay. Because I’d go back home. It’s like if I’m married to to her should be she. If she wants to work, she she can work. But mostly the men don’t allow the women to work. It’s like she would be home taking care of the kids, and the man would be the one who make the money and provide for the house. Okay? Yes.

 

(01:03:27:08) Ramit: Were you aware of this? Yeah. Okay. And so when Edwens says. He. Was trying to make money and then bring it back and basically. Give it to you, do you see it that way?

 

(01:03:37:06) Alexis: Yeah, I do, but I also think, again, we’re in a relationship where the first two years of us being together was long distance. I was flying to D.R. to meet with him and spend time, and then I would go back home. So there was no need for him to send me any money. And then when he ended up coming here on the visa, we were engaged. He lived with me. I was managing everything because he couldn’t legally work in the States. So there was never a time where he even he had to do that, nor could he do that. So that just wasn’t our story.

 

(01:04:08:00) Ramit: Do you feel. Like it kind of just glided into where you are. Today? I did okay. Like there was no. Okay, let’s turn the page on this chapter. Let’s just sit down. Things have changed. We’re married.

 

(01:04:19:15) Alexis: Right?

 

(01:04:20:07) Ramit: Let’s adapt our accounts. It was just like, okay, we’re. Married and. Keep doing what we’re doing.

 

(01:04:24:21) Edwens: Exactly like that. Yeah.

 

(01:04:26:22) Ramit: Okay. That’s common. It’s very common. But we can make a change. Let me tell you what gives me hope with Alexis and Edwens. They have a high income. That actually solves a lot of financial problems because they have a high income and low housing costs. They have put themselves in a position where they can fix a couple of things that need fixing. But you know what worries me? It’s not about the income. They could double. Their income. And it would still worry me. The way that they talk to each other, the way that they do not yet truly see themselves as a unit, but they both see themselves independently. And in fact. When they talk, they fight. They jab. It would be hard enough if the two. Of them were born in the same country. State. Even same city. They would have a shared culture. They have a different culture. And so that is going to take some. Time and a. Lot of. Conversation to bridge. They have hard work. Ahead of them, there’s no doubt about. That. But they can do it if they are united as a team and. They go through it knowing both of them. Have a. Plan and they’re doing their very. Best. Have you ever set. A standard for. What you. Expect in your relationship?

 

(01:05:46:19) Alexis: I set a standard for us to have to do therapy. It lasted a little while.

 

(01:05:52:24) Ramit: How long?

 

(01:05:54:07) Alexis: I think 2 or 3 months.

 

(01:05:55:16) Edwens: Okay.

 

(01:05:56:12) Alexis: And then it fell off. I’m not the best with accountability. I also think I’m not the most consistent. He told you that all the time. So I think when I’m not consistent I can’t hold anyone else to a standard to be consistent. Sometimes I feel like guilty for that. So then I think to hold you to a standard that I can’t meet myself. It just feels inconsistent. And pointless.

 

(01:06:28:15) Ramit: That’s pretty honest. You know, I. Asked the question probably.

 

(01:06:32:02) Alexis: Because he gets to do whatever he wants.

 

(01:06:34:01) Ramit: When I talk to both of you, what I hear is. You’re making way more money than you. Realized. Like tens of. Thousands of dollars. I actually think your CSP looks pretty good. Look, I’m pretty impressed. Especially having a young baby. Child care expenses, like. Oh, he’s pretty good. Your rent is super low. You made a couple. Decisions I wouldn’t have made with the Jeep, but it’s not. Horrible. You’re saving. You’re investing. Your income just went up a lot. That’s amazing. And like you’re so close to if we’re on a boat, both of you picking. Up the oars and starting. To row together and moving so fast. So fast. Accumulating so much. Living a great life. But every time it comes into. Picture, like, oh, okay, let’s pick up the oars. Let’s go together. You’re derailed. One of you derails each other. You derail yourself. You’re just. Not ready. To operate as a team.

 

(01:07:39:05) Edwens: Since we’ve been here, sitting here and everything from your perspective. You see? We can do it.

 

(01:07:47:20) Ramit: Yes. I have no doubt about that.

 

(01:07:51:04) Edwens: Alexis.

 

(01:07:52:20) Alexis: I mean, I believe that, too, but I just. I feel like I’ve been here before. I’ve met with like, financial advisors. I’ve done like the my job has like the employee assistance people that you can have a couple sessions with. I’ve done all this the coaching. I’ve read the books. I run the numbers.

 

(01:08:12:23) Ramit: And finish the. Sentence.

 

(01:08:16:18) Alexis: And nothing’s turned into like a consistent habit yet. Nothing’s like sustainable. It feels like.

 

(01:08:24:04) Ramit: So therefore. Finish the sentence.

 

(01:08:27:01) Alexis: I go back to where I started.

 

(01:08:29:27) Ramit: Do you believe this is going to change.

 

(01:08:33:04) Alexis: Yeah.

 

(01:08:33:24) Ramit: You do. I don’t think you do.

 

(01:08:35:22) Alexis: I hope it does. I hope it does. I doubt it. Yeah I doubt it.

 

(01:08:39:11) Ramit: I don’t think you. Believe it can change. That’s what the end of that sentence was. I’ve been here. Before. We’ve tried it. Dot dot dot. So I don’t believe. That we can change. What’s going on right now. Is actually one of the key issues, which is, I’m telling you, you all are so close. You have a pretty good KSP, but you derail yourself. And then what happens? Each of you played your part. Edwens goes. But do you think we can do it? Basically looking for external validation. From a guy. Do you think we can do it? Not asking me. What can I. Edwens change. What are the three things I. Edwens need to do right now? Nope. Just repeat. Do you think we can do it? Because once you say yes. Then I can walk. Out of here happy because she heard it. And I don’t need to convince her anymore. That’s your role? That’s the role you’re playing. Don’t disagree. With me. Listen, you can disagree with me in a minute. I just want you to hear me, okay? Then. The role you played, Alexis, was. I’ve been here before, and I’ve tried all these things, and I don’t believe we can change. Yo, I can’t win against that. It’s actually not my. Place to. Convince. You that you. Can change. That’s not my role. I’m not interested in it. I don’t do it. Only you can make this change. Not me. Not some, financial. Advisor. Only. You too. So, what do you want to do?

 

(01:10:11:27) Edwens: Well, we can do to change.

 

(01:10:14:00) Ramit: What do you even need to change? Do you even know.

 

(01:10:16:06) Alexis: I’m ready to cut back on things that I think I’m wasting my money on? If I’m spending too much on guilt free spending and using my credit card, as you say, recklessly or whatever, I can stop doing that. I can set limits. I can set budgets.

 

(01:10:32:14) Ramit: I appreciate that. You’re willing to make a change. That’s cool. I think what you just said. Was kind of a reaction to Edwens like, you know, and I know. What he said about credit cards is wrong. It’s flat out wrong. Why would you. Say, like, I’m willing to. Like, reduce my credit card spit? Why? If someone says. It’s something that’s point blank wrong, I’m not going to agree with them and then bend over. Backwards. To make them feel better. That’s not going to get you where you need to go.

 

(01:10:58:15) Alexis: I feel like I appease you when it doesn’t really make sense to me or financially, but if it strokes your ego in that moment, then my hope is that you’ll listen to me when I make the next financial decision or make some type of a change. So if I have to stop using my credit card just to get you to think that I’m being financially responsible, then when I ask you for money for something later, or I need to pay a bill later, or I want your buy in on some financial decision together, you’re more likely to say yes because it sounds so manipulative and like stupid.

 

(01:11:35:16) Ramit: But you know, the worst part. Doesn’t even work.

 

(01:11:39:03) Alexis: I know.

 

(01:11:39:20) Ramit: Do you even understand what. You just said?

 

(01:11:41:26) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(01:11:42:13) Ramit: It’s crazy.

 

(01:11:43:26) Alexis: You know what I’m saying?

 

(01:11:44:24) Ramit: Yeah, yeah. What does she say?

 

(01:11:46:18) Edwens: She’s just trying to be on my side when this is not the reality.

 

(01:11:50:14) Ramit: Yes. That was quite insightful, Alexis, that you do all these games. To appease him in the hope. That he will agree with you. And it. In my opinion, doesn’t even work.

 

(01:12:02:19) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(01:12:03:10) Ramit: What if you all could stop. Like, playing all these. Damn teams? I really, actually, like, focus on. Rowing in the same direction together. Wouldn’t it be so much more energy put towards a goal? If you want to buy a house. You want to save money. You want to invest. Wouldn’t that be better use?

 

(01:12:15:29) Alexis: Yes, yes, yes.

 

(01:12:17:19) Ramit: This idea. You mentioned it offhandedly just a second ago where you said, I feel the need to get his. Buy in so. That when I ask him for money. Why should you have to. Ask for money? In what world does a husband and wife have to ask each other for money? Why do you allow yourself. To be put in that position?

 

(01:12:38:07) Alexis: I didn’t ask to be in that position. I thought being married would mean I wouldn’t have to do that.

 

(01:12:42:14) Ramit: You thought that being married meant you would automatically. The money would be combined. Yeah, well it’s not. So what. Are you going to do. About it?

 

(01:12:49:25) Alexis: I mean.

 

(01:12:52:11) Ramit: Your answer has been to. Please.

 

(01:12:54:10) Alexis: Yeah.

 

(01:12:54:20) Ramit: Every month. Come on. Please. It’s not enough. Okay. Next month, please. That doesn’t work. And actually makes no sense. Aren’t aren’t you the higher earner as well?

 

(01:13:02:07) Alexis: That’s even though that’s a little ironic. Yeah. That’s the worst part.

 

(01:13:05:17) Ramit: What is it different approach to beseeching to asking begging. What’s a different approach.

 

(01:13:11:16) Alexis: If it’s a shared pot that we’re both pulling from, hey babe, I’m going to take care of this bill. It’s coming out of the account in case you see it. That’s it.

 

(01:13:21:04) Ramit: Okay. Do you think that I begged my wife to buy. In to our finances?

 

(01:13:29:09) Alexis: No. For me.

 

(01:13:30:02) Ramit: What I do.

 

(01:13:31:16) Alexis: Probably had a conversation about it.

 

(01:13:33:05) Ramit: Many. Yeah, like thousands. But what else?

 

(01:13:37:11) Alexis: I think. Go through the numbers together to see what the amounts are looking like. But did it out, maybe set like a consistent monthly? Weekly? Yes. However. Transfer.

 

(01:13:48:15) Ramit: And did I beg her. To please me, with me and please transfer? No. What do I do? I set an expectation. Okay. This is what we do as a couple. Yeah, this is important. This is how it works. Now I’m going to tell you my view. You don’t have to agree with all of it. I’m totally. Open to. 95%. Changing all. This stuff. This 5%. I’m not open to changing it. This is how it has to be. We have to have. Savings every single month. That’s a non-negotiable. For us as a couple. We have to invest. That’s a non-negotiable. For us as a couple. You have to have your own account. That’s a non-negotiable. For us as a couple. We each have our own accounts, but all the rest of it, if we hit those few things this is how I. Think we should do it. But I’m open to. What you think. What’s the difference. In the energy and the. Attitude.

 

(01:14:37:08) Alexis: It’s direct. There’s no wiggle room.

 

(01:14:42:05) Ramit: I’m not. Asking. You’re telling. Yeah. Yeah I feel like telling gets a bad name or we need to ask everything. You all want to have 5000. Buy in check ins with. Your coworkers. No. Sometimes you just tell them this is how it’s done. And look, you can disagree. Here’s the areas I’m open to discussion. But these ones I’m not. This is how it works. You show up for work. And as a. Partner you show up. For money. When was the last time you had a conversation like this?

 

(01:15:05:21) Alexis: The last time I think I told you I need money too.

 

(01:15:10:02) Edwens: It was when you were on the trip. It was like for the electricity that you end up paying when you came back. Yeah.

 

(01:15:16:12) Ramit: You told. Him to. Pay for.

 

(01:15:18:11) Edwens: Electricity.

 

(01:15:19:03) Ramit: And then did. You?

 

(01:15:20:24) Edwens: You didn’t. He did not get it. The thing is, I didn’t know.

 

(01:15:25:03) Ramit: And don’t care about the reasons why you didn’t do it. Yeah. And then what was the consequence of that?

 

(01:15:29:29) Alexis: It was late. And then I paid.

 

(01:15:31:09) Ramit: It didn’t seem like a consequence. It all seems amazing if I’m in his position. Oh, I. Didn’t have to do this annoying thing. And then she came on.

 

(01:15:37:21) Edwens: I forget.

 

(01:15:38:12) Ramit: If that’s not a. Consequence, it’s.

 

(01:15:39:26) Alexis: Just doing a consequence. Yeah.

 

(01:15:41:22) Ramit: You ever said a consequence.

 

(01:15:43:04) Alexis: That feel so motherly? No, I don’t even. I think the consequences, the argument.

 

(01:15:47:02) Ramit: I can’t think of anything more motherly. What, didn’t you say something in your application? In fact, I’m going to read it to you.

 

(01:15:52:29) Edwens: Jesus.

 

(01:15:54:08) Ramit: You wrote we are living paycheck to. Paycheck, and it kills. Our. Intimacy when he is focused on how much we spent on a date night. And I’m just trying to. Hit home base. If you know what I mean. What kills intimacy more than being a. Mother or father figure? Yeah, y’all are worried about something that is already here. How are we feeling right now? Because I’m actually feeling a little uncertain. How are you feeling about what’s going on right now?

 

(01:16:26:18) Alexis: Emotionally? I feel really angry, frustrated right now, but I feel like that’s pushing me to just want to change it. Like I don’t want to sit in this room.

 

(01:16:34:03) Edwens: It. I know you have said that a lot. Like I have to hear from another man, to change my lifestyle, but, if listening and learning from another man to be better at home for my family is going to make me change. Yes, I want to listen to.

 

(01:16:57:12) Ramit: Okay, I appreciate that. Yeah, I appreciate that.

 

(01:16:59:15) Edwens: And I want to change my lifestyle. Okay.

 

(01:17:02:17) Ramit: Yes I appreciate.

 

(01:17:03:20) Edwens: Maybe maybe I was nearing the little push, to see things clear from you. From her. I’m taking this as an opportunity. Good to do better. That’s what I want. Yeah.

 

(01:17:17:02) Ramit: Now, I appreciate that. I’m glad actually hearing from both of you on. How you’re feeling right now is really helpful for me, because. Honestly, I feel a little combative. I don’t want to I don’t want to. Like. It’s funny because your KSP is pretty good. What I’m feeling as I. Pull. On one thread, I hear another layer and then another layer, and I wonder. If you would be okay. With me. Just being very direct with you.

 

(01:17:47:05) Edwens: Yes, please. Yes.

 

(01:17:49:18) Ramit: Okay. I think that I have a lot of respect for you. Coming to the US in a different culture and going through, you know, a long distance relationship than not being able to work than getting a job. At target. And then getting this much higher paying job like tons of respect. Incredible. I have a lot of respect for what that also took for you. In helping somebody come to the US and realizing, like the things that we take for granted if we’re born somewhere. Like. It’s actually not. Obvious to people, a lot of things that. Anybody does in any country. Are quite. Confusing to somebody who’s not from the country. Okay. With that said. You’re married, you have a ten month old.

 

(01:18:34:28) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(01:18:36:01) Ramit: It’s time to get locked in. And right now, the dynamic here. Needs radical change. If you do that, you could actually live an amazing life. What does it take? Right now, the two of you are not acting like partners. We have a parent child dynamic. Your mom. You’re the sort of adolescent. Son. Who just lets her. Handle everything. For you. And the. Way that this. Manifests is in so many different ways. Alexis, you are. Constantly coming up with different ways of trying to reach him. To try to placate his emotions. And you have these stories about he needs to be. A man and feel better. And if. I do x, y, z. ABC 123, then maybe he will finally see it my way. And you don’t realize you’ve been playing. The whole wrong game the whole time. Edwens from your perspective, why would you change? You just started making a lot more money. And you know, I don’t. Want her to meddle too much in my money. Because she’s only. Asking now, not before. And anyway, combining money. I don’t know, that feels like, I’m going to get looked over my shoulder. And anyway. Things are fine. I send my money and it all works out. And if the utility bill doesn’t get paid, she comes and takes care of it. Guys, this isn’t get you anywhere. You just stuck here. You. If I checked in with you ten years from now, you’ll be in exactly the same position. Exactly. It’s the same cycle your parents are in.

 

(01:20:01:05) Edwens: Wow.

 

(01:20:02:26) Ramit: So there’s a way. To change it. But it involves radically. Re conceptualizing. The relationship here. Alexis, you are no longer the mother. You are no longer responsible for fixing the money in the relationship. You set the. Expectations. Here’s what I expect. I expect that we have a. Joint account and that both of our incomes are going. Towards it. Then from there. Our bills are paid and. Then the savings and all that stuff, just like in money for couples. And then a little bit of money is sent to each of our accounts every month. That is my expectation. Next up, I. Expect our savings rate to be this, I expect this, I expect that. I’m open and willing. To talk about it. If you have a different opinion, bring it. If you’re not sure what some of the stuff. Is, let’s talk about it. But these are my expectations. And then you have to be willing to do the hardest thing, which is. Ask yourself, what will you do if. Edwens does not. Follow through? What are the consequences? Because in the utility case he. Didn’t learn anything. In fact, if anything, he learned not to do it because you’re going to come and save the day again. What would a natural consequence of that have been?

 

(01:21:05:27) Alexis: Let the bill be passed still?

 

(01:21:07:11) Ramit: Yeah. And then passed you and passed you until eventually. The power is off. Now the question is, are you going to allow yourself. To do that?

 

(01:21:16:13) Alexis: Yeah. I mean yeah I will okay.

 

(01:21:19:17) Ramit: And then for Edwens to know. This is his responsibility, that means that the two. Of you, when your money is joint, which needs to happen. Immediately, then you decide here is who owns what. You cannot be responsible for all this. It’s actually disempowering to him. You’ve got to hear her suggestions. And if you. Agree great. Do it. If not you can speak. Up as well. You have control. You’re a partner but you’ve got to take on a lot of this as well. Then the two of you can start looking at your money together. You can look at your actual accurate CcpA. You can say, wait a second. Right now. If we just fast forward, we’re. Not going to have enough to retire. We need to start putting money aside for that more. Hey, right now, if we want to get a house, it’s going to take. Us 18 years to save for a. House. I don’t want to wait that long. We’ve got to put more money here. We got to cut money here. But like, we can go through all these exercises. But it’s kind of pointless unless. The two of you actually start. Behaving as partners. That’s my direct feedback. What, do you think.

 

(01:22:17:23) Edwens: I can do that? Yeah. That’s perfect.

 

(01:22:20:23) Ramit: That’s it. It’s easy.

 

(01:22:23:03) Alexis: I say it was easy.

 

(01:22:24:03) Edwens: Yeah, it’s it’s.

 

(01:22:25:15) Alexis: Yeah, it’s doable. I think it’s going to be an uphill battle for me to just again, accept the fact that I can’t save him from himself. Because again, that just reinforces the idea that I’ll come in and save him every time. So I need to stop that, and I will.

 

(01:22:42:16) Edwens: I want to be there, 5050 with her. I want to learn how to pay the bills and everything. And so we can be we can be good.

 

(01:22:53:21) Ramit: That’s good I appreciate that. That’s great.

 

(01:22:56:09) Alexis: And all I want is to be 5050. I just want to feel like I have a partner. So I’m like if you’re able to carry half a load I can carry my 50% and not complain about it. Like, that’s fine.

 

(01:23:07:27) Ramit: Alexis, what do you. Remember. About your childhood. When it came to money? What is your family used to. Say.

 

(01:23:15:04) Alexis: So many things. I like just realized recently that I think I’ve been through a lot of financial trauma with my mom specifically. She’s just like our dynamic. She’s the breadwinner in my parents relationship. But it wasn’t always that way, I guess. Before she had my siblings and I, my dad was the breadwinner when she had kids. She ended up being a stay at home mom. And he was working and making money. He, for the most part, would give money to friends and family, would go on trips, fund all the family vacations and stuff like that. And then mom found out that he, I guess, was funneling money through an organization. There was a lawsuit. She found out all this stuff was happening under her nose, and she had no idea. So there was, like, a lot of trust that was broken between the two of them. Mom started becoming the breadwinner. At a certain point, she would throw that in his face a lot. So they were always fighting about money in the house and like saying, you’re not a man because I’m doing this and you can’t provide for the kids and blah, blah, blah. So I was always seeing that. Then my dad lost his job when I was in like high school. My mom threw that in his face for years, and then he ended up having, like, open heart surgery and then just stopped working from there. And my mom took over everything and was resentful, but like, still did everything. And now they’re getting a divorce now. Now?

 

(01:24:36:16) Ramit: Why now?

 

(01:24:37:25) Alexis: Well, there’s infidelity, stuff like that. But financial stuff was obviously always brewing underneath all of that. So now they’re getting a divorce and it’s really nasty. So that scares me. And I’m all that’s happening while we’re raising a child. We’re living together. We want to buy a house. And I’m just I have no one to like, look to for support because my mom is like, you’re the woman. You got to take care. Don’t let a man be the reason why you have bad credit. So if he doesn’t pay something, you better get in there and take care of it. It’s a lot.

 

(01:25:03:19) Ramit: Yeah. It’s interesting. You mentioned you. Just realized you grew up with. Financial trauma. It sounds like you’ve gone through a huge amount of it.

 

(01:25:13:18) Alexis: And then I know there was a word for it. Yeah. So that word I was like, oh, that’s what this is.

 

(01:25:18:01) Ramit: Yeah. And have you seen an individual therapist? Yes. Okay. And the, the couples therapist that you saw that lasted for a while. And then it. Stopped. Why?

 

(01:25:28:25) Alexis: She’s actually my personal therapist. Okay. So she we did a couple sessions together. And it was helpful. I think it was mainly around us parenting. That’s what our primary focus was on therapy. We never really got into all of this.

 

(01:25:42:10) Ramit: Got it. And this is similar to your profession as well, right?

 

(01:25:45:04) Alexis: Yeah. I’m a therapist.

 

(01:25:46:05) Ramit: You’re a therapist. So. Yeah.

 

(01:25:49:07) Alexis: Yeah. That’s crazy.

 

(01:25:51:10) Ramit: What do you make of that?

 

(01:25:53:03) Alexis: I feel like such a hypocrite.

 

(01:25:54:23) Ramit: Because.

 

(01:25:55:16) Alexis: Because I, I don’t practice what I preach all the time.

 

(01:25:58:17) Ramit: So. Sometimes I don’t either. I didn’t talk to my. Wife till too late about. Money. How’s my. Bad? I dropped the ball. On meetings. While I was. Writing my book on money. For couples. I’ve done many things. That were hypocritical. Or contradictory to my own teachings. That’s human. It’s not great, but it’s human. So what’s. The end of the sentence for. You? You feel like a hypocrite. So?

 

(01:26:26:16) Alexis: So I feel like I just let that be my story sometimes.

 

(01:26:30:02) Ramit: Got it? Can I tell you what mine was? I feel like a hypocrite. So I’m going to fix it. Yeah. And that’s what I did. Yeah. Like when she pointed it out to me, hey, you’ve dropped the ball in these meetings and you would never. Do that at work. So why is it okay that you do that for me? I was like oh. Like explosion here and here. And I was like I’ll fix this. Give me a week. I need to find out why. I haven’t been doing this. And then I fixed it. What’s the difference?

 

(01:27:00:25) Alexis: I don’t take that initiative.

 

(01:27:02:03) Ramit: Yeah. You’re letting this. Stuff destroy. You and just sitting there. Yeah. Y’all can actually make a lot of mistakes in life. You will. But the key is you got to fix them. You got to acknowledge them and fix them. And right now it’s like you make a mistake or something happens. It’s not working. And then you just go I suck. It’s not the way forward. So what if you were to be. Like, oh, I’m a hypocrite and so I’m going to fix it. What would you do?

 

(01:27:26:20) Alexis: I mean, I set the standard.

 

(01:27:28:14) Ramit: What does that mean. Just feel a little heavy.

 

(01:27:32:10) Alexis: Yeah it does. I’m like going back a year now. I don’t know.

 

(01:27:35:28) Ramit: Just from watching your body language right now. Even like your facial expressions, it feels like. You’re in the process of just, like, beating yourself. Up for like. 15 years. Of stuff. Am I reading that right?

 

(01:27:49:14) Alexis: Okay. Yeah.

 

(01:27:50:21) Ramit: What if we just didn’t do that? What if we just did it a totally different way? What if you. Step one of. Three was. Give myself some grace?

 

(01:28:06:15) Alexis: Hey, you’re that free all the time. I hear that phrase all the time.

 

(01:28:12:24) Ramit: You do? Or do you hear in therapy? Okay. That’s good. Let’s have a very good therapist.

 

(01:28:24:25) Alexis: Oh my God, he cried.

 

(01:28:27:12) Ramit: Take all this family.

 

(01:28:30:09) Alexis: Because I don’t get grace. I don’t even know how to give it sometimes. Like, I just don’t get it. I don’t get it from my mom. I don’t get it from family. I have so many high expectations I don’t even that I can’t meet, so I don’t even know how to set them. Like it’s just, this is like such hard stuff. Yeah. So like unlearn.

 

(01:28:53:15) Ramit: Yes.

 

(01:28:54:13) Alexis: But I don’t know where to start. Like I really don’t know where to start. And I’ve tried starting like that’s the thing. I feel like I always get this big motivation to be like, I want to do things different. I’m going to be the one to break generational curses. And then I feel cursed, and then I’m right back to feeling, well, woe is me and pitiful, and I don’t want to be that. But I have a kid, so I really don’t want to be that. And I don’t want him to be that either.

 

(01:29:18:12) Ramit: You know, you took one step. Look where you are. Going to get on a plane.

 

(01:29:22:23) Alexis: Yeah.

 

(01:29:23:29) Ramit: Get in front of these cameras. We have had a very. Challenging conversation today.

 

(01:29:29:03) Edwens: Right?

 

(01:29:29:22) Alexis: Yeah.

 

(01:29:30:14) Ramit: Yeah. I sent you outside to talk. I had no going to come back. So let me just say you have taken several steps. And I know how difficult it can be. Put yourself in therapy chair. And I have a family or others that are not not only not supportive, but they bring me back down every time I try to do something back. When I try to do something and go, who? You? You’re so trying to be big. Too big for your britches. And so what do I what do I have to do? Because every. Time I try to take one step forward, they put me. Two steps back. What do I do?

 

(01:29:59:20) Alexis: You surround yourself with people who you want to, emulate or become who we are. Yeah.

 

(01:30:07:27) Ramit: And what do I do when they try to bring me two steps back? It’s quite interesting. Edwens just covered. Comes theatrically. Covered his ears. With his hands. Two things I take away from that one is maybe go low contact with some of these folks.

 

(01:30:23:13) Alexis: Yeah.

 

(01:30:24:04) Ramit: Right. And second, Edwens has some good instincts there. Maybe actually turn to him. As a partner. Yeah. Hey, I’m really. Struggling with this. My mom said this, or my siblings said that. And before I answer, like, what do you think I should do? Enlist his help for the areas that he is great at? And Edwens, you do the same for money. You two go from this parallel to this partners. Would it work?

 

(01:30:53:26) Alexis: I think so, yeah.

 

(01:30:54:20) Ramit: Can I make a suggestion?

 

(01:30:55:25) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(01:30:57:06) Ramit: If I’m a couple and we’re making. 150, 60. 70 K. For the first time in our lives. I’m giving myself some advantages. So that we are connected. Because if we. Are connected then our. Baby. Is going to be happy. If we are connected, our finances are going to thrive. And our. Health is going to thrive, and we are going to thrive and our extended families are going to. Thrive. So you all are not really feeding this relationship actually you’re doing the opposite. You’re starving. It is just like fight, fight fight. So you know what successful people do. They don’t wait till there’s a problem. What if we do the. Same for. Therapy though. Instead of waiting until there’s. A fight. We actually have a regular standing meeting. Yeah. What I can tell is that it would be so helpful for the two of you to have models of healthy relationships. Would you agree? Yes.

 

(01:31:52:22) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(01:31:53:23) Ramit: If your only models are, for example, parents fighting for decades. Then it’s actually no surprise that you are in the same situation. In a way you got to both. Of you acknowledge like. Hey I actually like. I love you so much and I understand. Why. We haven’t been able. To connect. Like if we think about it, both of us are bringing like generations. Of. Disconnection and we are in a different position. We make more money than we ever. Thought we would. We’re here in the same place, finally, not long distance. Like, don’t we owe it to ourselves. To strengthen this relationship? If you do that, then you start to see things in a different light therapy, regular financial meetings, all of those things. Now, when it comes to the numbers, can I just point a couple things out?

 

(01:32:46:02) Edwens: Yeah, yeah.

 

(01:32:47:00) Ramit: The house thing. Put that on hold. Yeah. Right now. There is. No way you can find. A house for. The same price or even close to it. No way. If you were to get a house. Based on depending on where you. Live, it would be at least double, probably triple what. You’re paying now. Would you. Agree? Absolutely. Okay. There’s no money for that right now. Yeah. So we might as well just accept it. You’re not wasting money on rent by closing the door on that, at least temporarily. You open the door on. Lots of other stuff. How much do we put away? How much are we saving right now? You have less than a month of savings. That’s not a lot. Do you realize your fixed costs are. 7000 bucks and your savings are 5000 bucks? You need to get that number up. And you actually can. You can do it. So if it’s. Me, I’m sitting down. I’m going through money for couples together. Together. Each of you reading a chapter, I’m coming up with specific milestones. First, I want to have six. Months of an emergency. Fund that’s going to take a while.

 

(01:33:48:12) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(01:33:49:14) Ramit: I want to make sure. We are a household. That has no credit card. Debt. We can use the credit card, but we always pay it. Off in full every month. Right? Yeah. Start to set. Up some milestones. And once we hit. This, this. This, then we can talk about a house down the road. But for now we’re going to have therapy. We’re going. To, save towards, Six months of an emergency fund, and we’re going to start investing more. Aggressively. Could you do it?

 

(01:34:16:28) Edwens: Yeah, yeah.

 

(01:34:18:11) Ramit: Okay. What questions are coming up for you right now?

 

(01:34:22:17) Alexis: I think the first thing that comes to mind is how can I save more when I feel like I’m saving as much as I can right now?

 

(01:34:30:22) Ramit: Let’s take a look at the numbers. If we go to your fixed costs, we are at. 77%. You’re right. It’s too high. We need. To bring that number. Below 60%.

 

(01:34:41:11) Edwens: Okay.

 

(01:34:42:07) Ramit: So how do we do it. Well your rent is solid.

 

(01:34:46:09) Edwens: Before you bring it down we trying to to move to a bigger place. Put it all we’ve been looking at. It’s like 3000 and 2500 and stuff.

 

(01:34:57:29) Ramit: Okay.

 

(01:34:58:09) Edwens: Do you think from what she’s saying, our budget can really afford it?

 

(01:35:04:20) Ramit: Let’s look. Yeah. So you said right now it’s 1875 and you’re saying the places are 3000?

 

(01:35:10:02) Edwens: Yeah. The place that we’re looking up is like 3000, but we’re trying to to at least do 2500.

 

(01:35:16:27) Ramit: Which number. Pick it.

 

(01:35:18:13) Edwens: So 25.

 

(01:35:19:22) Ramit: 2500 okay. What. So if. It’s 2500. Watch what happens to. This number right here. The 77%. 84% Jesus. So what does that tell you. Oh can’t do you can’t afford it.

 

(01:35:31:11) Edwens: No we can’t.

 

(01:35:32:02) Ramit: Simple. I actually think you should take joy in that. Joy that at least, you know, isn’t it better. To know. Than to go and do it? And then every month you’re like, where’s all our money? That’s how most Americans make their biggest decisions. It’s crazy to me.

 

(01:35:47:23) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(01:35:48:16) Ramit: Like I said, if I were you and I had this place, I would stay for as long as I could. Because every month you are here, you are saving a. Huge. Amount of money. Huge. You all should look at your apartment, that place you’re. In. Not as a. Curse, but as a gift. You’re being. Given. Like over $1,000 a month. I know it’s. Small, but I would stay there for as long as I could. Okay, yeah. Great question.

 

(01:36:16:20) Alexis: It’s a hard pill to swallow me.

 

(01:36:19:07) Edwens: Wow. Yeah.

 

(01:36:21:03) Ramit: Let’s keep going. What what can you do in the fixed cost to reduce it? Tell me.

 

(01:36:25:08) Edwens: I’m definitely is, our person are spending.

 

(01:36:28:24) Ramit: 400. A month.

 

(01:36:30:14) Edwens: We got to change that to. Let’s bring it to 200.

 

(01:36:33:20) Ramit: 200? Yeah, let’s bring it lower than that.

 

(01:36:38:00) Edwens: Yeah, let’s do 100. Okay. 100.

 

(01:36:40:12) Ramit: Can you do it?

 

(01:36:41:02) Edwens: Yeah, yeah, I come in it.

 

(01:36:42:29) Ramit: All right. Let’s take a look at the number 74%. Good, good in the right direction. Keep going.

 

(01:36:47:12) Alexis: I could shop around for a cheaper insurance.

 

(01:36:50:05) Ramit: Even if you were to save like, $100 a month, that’s. Actually quite meaningful. Okay, I. Think you should. Look, I’m not going to change anything here. But you should do it. What else? What’s this? Miscellaneous number $960 a month on miscellaneous. We can bring that number down. It just means that you all have to be. Very meticulous. About your spending. Yeah. Can you agree with that? Yeah, yeah. Okay, let’s. Bring it down. In my opinion, 960. Is way too high. If it’s me, I give you, like 200 bucks. 200, 200 bucks takes you down to 66% where it’s in better shape for sure. Okay, but that means that you’ll have 200 bucks, and that’s the max. Yeah, of. Something that can come up. So if I’m you, anytime there’s an extra, like I don’t spend the 200 bucks, I’m putting it into a savings account, okay? Because one day when your tires go flat. Where’s it coming from? That’s where it’s coming. Yeah.

 

(01:37:46:00) Edwens: Okay.

 

(01:37:46:25) Ramit: All right, the rest of it I think, is good. Oh, the clothes are. Still at 150. I don’t know, I think that’s got to come down 50 from. I’ll keep you 50 each. Enjoy those shoes. It didn’t even move the number. We’re going to do it anyway because sometimes remiss it’s punitive. The baby 1677. Any opportunities there?

 

(01:38:11:17) Edwens: I would keep the baby same. All right.

 

(01:38:13:07) Ramit: So no changes here. Fine. I do want to point out a couple things down here. We got $200 a month going to the 529.

 

(01:38:21:20) Alexis: Not enough.

 

(01:38:22:17) Ramit: Not. No. It’s way too much right now. Y’all need to be focusing on yourselves.

 

(01:38:27:02) Alexis: You thought that was not enough?

 

(01:38:28:13) Ramit: Well, you don’t have enough for retirement. Oh, right. Your baby is ten months old. Yeah, your baby has time. You have less. Time? Yeah. So that. $200 needs to be going for you, not for baby. Zero. Goodbye. Okay. Yeah. Cool. So we’re doing 400. I like that. 400 for your investments. Savings are at 12%. That’s good. Gifts, vacations. I don’t think there are any vacations coming up. For a while.

 

(01:38:55:26) Edwens: We planning for next year?

 

(01:38:57:18) Ramit: Oh. You are? Where are you going?

 

(01:38:58:29) Edwens: And we went into this debt, baby. To the family.

 

(01:39:01:15) Ramit: Okay. All right. I’m not going to argue with that. Hey, I. Want to make a. Couple of. Observations. So one, I think that. Clothes need to go. Into guilt free spending. They’re not. Fixed costs like you. Buying like some random pair. Of shoes. That’s guilt. Free spending. Actually, I’m going to take this to zero. Okay? And that money will flow down here that comes. Out of here. That also includes. Things like eating out and things like family travel, which you know, you can save for here. I see that, The money going back. To dry, that’s your. Individual money that you are choosing to send. Yeah, totally respect that. If you have an equivalent or something that you want to do like. Travel, okay, fine. As long as it fits. The. Numbers, great. If it doesn’t. Fit, then you all need to cut back on something. Else, okay? It’s just math. It’s like a puzzle. Make it work right now. Based on the changes that we have made. You have almost. $2,000 a month. To distribute. Did you know that?

 

(01:40:00:13) Alexis: I did not.

 

(01:40:01:06) Ramit: Let me show. You how that happened. Just so you can follow the the math. So we cut a. Bunch of money from fixed. Costs, okay? We cut. The miscellaneous. We cut the clothes, the baby. We did cut 200 bucks off the baby. So all of that flowed. Down. To the bottom, which is 19%. Guilt free spending. Now, for most couples, I recommend 20 to 35%. In your case, you don’t have enough savings. You don’t have enough for retirement. So do you think that number should. Be higher or lower? Lower, lower? I agree you should spend less on like fun stuff. You can spend a little bit. We should spend less and you should redirect it towards what.

 

(01:40:40:26) Alexis: I’m saving in retirement.

 

(01:40:42:14) Ramit: Exactly.

 

(01:40:43:02) Alexis: Yeah.

 

(01:40:43:20) Ramit: Crystal clear. Where do you all think we should put this?

 

(01:40:46:03) Alexis: The sending money to doctor? Yeah. Is that a bill? I feel like that’s a fixed cost.

 

(01:40:50:07) Ramit: Fixed cost? Yeah. So we call that a 400. I watch what happens. 400 means you’re now at 69%. It’s it’s okay. It’s not great, but it’s okay. But it just means you’re going to spend less on. Guilt free spending. Okay. You’ll have. 1800 bucks. To spend. We need to increase the savings. How much you want to. Add to that?

 

(01:41:13:12) Alexis: You can make it a full thousand.

 

(01:41:14:21) Ramit: Good. Watch what happens? Your savings is now 12%. You still have $1,493. I like this, I like the direction we’re going. There’s actual math on this. You can open up a compound interest. Calculator. And calculate how much you will need. For retirement. Let’s simulate it right now. Let’s say we add an extra. 500 bucks a month. We’re at 9%. Not bad. You still have $993 a month. Look, if it’s me and I’m young. With a baby. And I’m trying to get ahead. Because what’s your age is.

 

(01:41:48:25) Alexis: Again? 29.

 

(01:41:50:14) Ramit: 31 you guys have an amazing opportunity. Like even 200 bucks a month actually makes a. Huge. Difference right now. So if it’s me, I’m taking this number down to. Freaking. 600 here. I’ll add an extra hundred to savings and an extra 100 to investments. Whoa. You’re down to 793. That’s not bad. That’s not bad. You all have to be very. Thoughtful and planful about what you’re spending guilt free spending. You probably can’t go on any more big vacations for a while. Okay? But you will not believe after three. Months you’re going to look in your accounts. You’re going to be like, is this for real? You will not believe it. In three months you will. Have an extra almost $4,000. In your savings account. That’s crazy. And then in your investments, you will have an extra $3,000.

 

(01:42:41:26) Edwens: Wow.

 

(01:42:43:03) Ramit: That’s amazing. That’s just three months. Imagine 12 months. It becomes unstoppable again. You all. You don’t have to go this aggressive. You’re young. You could dial it back a little bit if you want. If you go and you try. This and you’re like. It’s way too impossible for us. And you talk. About it, the bad way would be I give up back to the old ways. The good way would be, hey. I’m finding this. Really hard. Like, I know that we agreed. For me to eat out once a week or for me not to take a vacation, but. I don’t feel this. Is sustainable. I would like to discuss with you a way for us. To loosen the strings. Just a little bit. It may take us a little bit longer. But it’s going to make it more sustainable for both of us. Would you be open to that discussion.

 

(01:43:24:18) Alexis: And this is going to be a tough pill to swallow. I have friends who live all over the country.

 

(01:43:29:10) Ramit: You have plenty of time. And I am not. Saying you all have to live like. Hermits. For the rest of your life. What I’m saying. Is that the way that. You came into this conversation, do you remember what your number one goal was?

 

(01:43:42:11) Alexis: Clarity.

 

(01:43:43:10) Ramit: Yeah. And like, what was your thing that you wanted to to do with your money?

 

(01:43:47:15) Alexis: Oh, to buy a house. Yeah.

 

(01:43:49:24) Ramit: Right. And we, we discovered in five seconds that’s not even feasible. I’m not saying that’s forever, but what I’m saying is let’s actually. Focus on realistically. What’s possible. And let’s. When you all. Came in here and you were trying to set. Yourself up to fail, if you had bought a house, you would fail. You can’t do it right now. What I’m doing is showing you how to create an actual plan. Where you will succeed. That is amazing. That is how you change this. Generation of messages. That you learned. You have a plan. Your parents did not have a plan. I guarantee that this changes things. Then the two of you need to connect. Therapy. Regular meetings, reading the. Book together, both of you being involved. Not one. Both. And then you follow. The plan and when it goes wrong and it will go wrong at some point. You go, hey, let’s talk about this. Doesn’t mean you’re a bad person, I love. You. Let’s figure out where we went on track. Let’s get back on track. Can you all do that? Yes, I believe you can. I believe that. What surprised you about today’s conversation?

 

(01:44:51:28) Edwens: I just got surprised about the numbers. Yeah.

 

(01:44:55:05) Ramit: What part of it?

 

(01:44:56:18) Edwens: When you say in three months how much we can make, we can really save. It’s like when you really think for the whole year, we we gonna make it. I think we we can make it good. Yeah.

 

(01:45:09:23) Alexis: I really thought having a baby, I had so much I needed to do now and early and, you know, the future. But I’m like, you’re right. He’s. He’s ten months old. I have a lifetime ahead of me. So sometimes I feel like I run myself in this, like, anxious circle of needing to catch up and whatnot. And then it I set myself back.

 

(01:45:29:15) Ramit: Yeah.

 

(01:45:30:04) Alexis: So that’s a.

 

(01:45:30:26) Ramit: Great both great realizations. Calm cool and collected. That’s how I am with money. That’s how I want everyone to be. I can admire things. There may be certain things I see that I want to do, maybe I can afford it right now. Calm, cool and collected. I have a little document in my phone. I jot it down. I create a little milestone when we get to. This. I’m going to go and look at my. List and see what do I get to do? What do I get to do? But there is joy. In creating a. List of things you want to see. And in maintaining your discipline, so that when you get there. It is. Even sweeter.

 

(01:46:09:01) Edwens: Yeah.

 

(01:46:09:22) Ramit: When you walked in here today, how are you feeling compared. To how you feel now?

 

(01:46:16:18) Alexis: I feel lighter.

 

(01:46:18:10) Edwens: I feel very different because I feel like, I just took a rock out of my back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s how I feel.

 

(01:46:25:22) Ramit: About the two of you. How do you feel about the two of you as a unit?

 

(01:46:30:06) Edwens: I feel like this. You made a lot of point. I kind of connect us way, way better. Yeah, especially the therapy. Doing things together, sitting down. Right. And, see what we do with span and everything. I think that’s going to create a lot of a good habit between us. And then things going to be better for us. You know, when it comes to that.

 

(01:46:58:23) Alexis: I just, I think I, I’m realizing how much I am reinforcing negative habits from him. So I think I’m as much to blame. And just like the cycles that we were in, even though I try to point the finger at him because he’s not involved, he doesn’t do blah blah blah, I think that because I’m always there to like pick up where he leaves off, I blame myself for that. So I yeah, I’m looking in the mirror now and realizing that I need to change.

 

(01:47:27:05) Ramit: Great realizations, both. Very powerful. Edwens. Will you combine.

 

(01:47:33:12) Edwens: Accounts? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, I have my perspective now from before. And now it’s it’s a lot. It’s way different.

 

(01:47:42:27) Ramit: I love that the two of you. As a unit. If you are stronger. Your son. Feels that your son sees that and it actually becomes stronger over time. So it’s like. You right now when you walked in, it was like two magnets repelling each other. It’s like if I. Try to push them together, they. Actually would fight. And I think what I’m starting to see are signs that. You two have flipped. And that when I even bring you two close. Together, yeah, you get together. And guess what? You keep those magnets. Together for a long time. And you start to fuze together. And then you got your little baby magnet until ten month old comes along. The baby sticks like this. That’s a beautiful.

 

(01:48:29:13) Edwens: Family, yo.

 

(01:48:31:11) Ramit: It kind of explains a lot. The fact that both of them grew up with parents who fought. Imagine being in a household where your parents fight once a week. Twice a week, every day, and you grew up for years seeing that you would think it’s normal. You wouldn’t actually know that there. Is any other way to be. And I think that’s a little bit of what we are seeing today. There’s not only and. Training of what they learn, but there’s a. Retraining of what a. Healthy. Relationship looks. Like. I’m actually really honored that they reached out and asked for help. I think they need. To be around other people. Than they are normally. Around other people who say, hey, it’s. Actually not normal. To be completely separate in. Your marriage with a ten month old. Hey, it’s actually cool if the two of you talk about how you feel. And you can admit, like. I’m nervous or I. Made a mistake. They need to see that there’s a different way to be, because once they see it. Then they can start to. Adapt it and adopt it for their own relationship. If you find yourself talking past your partner like the two of you are just. Not connecting about money and you even find yourself. Jabbing each other, well, you did this and you did that, then it might. Be time to make a change. And if. So, you. Should join my money coaching program every month. I have a live event. The two of you can come together. There are. Tons of other people in that program. In situations just like you and a little bit ahead. And you can have an opportunity to make money, an. Important part of your relationship. I’ll show you exactly what to. Do with your money. I will. Show you how to talk to each other. About money. I will even show you how to spend. Your money. Meaningfully so the. Two of you can get on the same page. Join my money coaching program. At Outcomes. Money Coaching.

 

(01:50:18:03) Edwens: Hello, guys. Hello, roommate. I’ll say thank you one more time for the opportunity. And then I will say, right away, my biggest surprise was to see my wife, emotional roommate that’s been, you know, something was going on with her. And then to me, that was amazing. And then I will say, take away some of the credit car. Now, I have a better idea. I have enough information from you about how to use my credit card properly. And then I would say, I mean, me and my wife, we are about to open our joint account. We are about to get our, combo therapy. We about we getting ready to invest better, to save better. And now we feel like every little things that we buy, we have to take note and then to make things better. But, we also don’t want to be cheap, but here we go. We’re trying. And then we are ready to prove ourselves that we can make you. Thank you guys. Thank you. Keep changing life.

 

(01:51:15:02) Alexis: I have really been a surprised by things, just how much I have to take responsibility for our dynamic with money. I think we’re really opening my eyes to the fact that I have been playing mom with my husband, Edwens, and I don’t think that’s been helpful to us at all. I have a lot to unpack with that. And I also think that we both need to really work through that stuff in couples therapy, which is another thing that I’m taking away from that conversation went through me. Overall, I think for me, it really helped us to understand with the numbers, we have a lot more we need to be saving than we are spending. I can’t be traveling like I usually do, which I’m crying about internally. But I think the sacrifices that we’re making now for our future, in order to have a rich life, I think, are going to be worth it. My hope is also to be clear and specific with him about what my non-negotiables are in the relationship and really set a standard that we meet really pushed to me. So I’m going to work on that. And I’ll check back in and see how things are going from there. But thank you. It’s been about, I want to say, a month and a half since we last met, to go over our money coaching and a lot has changed. I want to start off by saying our relationship has been through a lot of ups and downs. I think since that conversation, you were really able to sit with each other and talk about one, the challenges that we faced with money growing up, how we want money to be in our relationship and then how we really hope to like parent with our son, in the future with money as well. We also started doing money meetings every Tuesday.

 

(01:52:57:10) Edwens: We going through also with our therapy, we met with our therapy and, and it’s going good so far.

 

(01:53:06:06) Alexis: We also have started, a joint savings and joint check. Yeah, yeah, we’ve also been able to really combine our finances in some areas. I think we still both want to have some sense of independence. And like, I do my thing, you do your thing. But for the most part, our family is not.

 

(01:53:21:25) Edwens: One of the main thing is we already seeing changes in our savings. So they say changes is is going good. Weekly. We don’t want to say numbers, but we are impressed with that.

 

(01:53:33:19) Ramit: Yeah.

 

(01:53:33:28) Alexis: He’s very happy to know we have about five grand an hour. See?

 

(01:53:37:05) Edwens: Oh, my. You’re doing really well. Yeah. You one month and a half. It’s like.

 

(01:53:40:24) Alexis: Yeah. And just the short amount of time we’ve already seen how like combining our finances, which I’ve been saying forever. I’m glad we’re meet was able to say that to him, that we really were able to reach our goals a lot faster when we combine. So that’s been the biggest. And we really seen improvements on, again, we’re doing couples therapy. I want to say that we’ve been really able to have better communication about not just money, but just our goals and our hopes for our relationship. And our future together. We are not going to be doing any big traveling, as Renee warned us that we probably should just stick to getting our emergency savings up. That’s going to be our priority. But yeah, I think we’re really hopeful and excited about what the future holds for us. We’re going to really take the things that are shared in that conversation, as well as what we’re learning in the book together. And we’ll see what the world takes us in the future. So thank you again for all your help. And we’ll keep working on ourselves. Thanks.

 

(01:54:27:16) Ramit: Thank you. Listen up. If you want my help with your specific money questions, there are only two ways to get it. First, you can apply to be on this podcast at dot com slash apply. Or second, you can join my money coaching program instantly at Bootcamp Money Coaching. In that program you get access to live virtual events, monthly group coaching calls, live Q&A, and an amazing huge community of other people like you. Check it out at dot com Shmoney coaching.